Can someone explain ISEB to me?

@blocksmum, I know that you have now removed your message, but it was very helpful to read your son's first-hand account of the test, so thank you.

@Oceane11Plus, yes same experience here. He is no pretty much scoring over 130 consistently (and top scores in Maths) on Atom, but that's through familiarity, rather than a sudden jump in the ability. He still find 3D objects (constructing and rotating) challenging, but so do I!

@blocksmum Very kind of you to share feedback but as PP says many DCs have yet to sit the test so if I were you I'd ask for the post to be deleted.
I have two remarks following your message:

1. My DD like most DCs has also been practicing on Atom and her scores have improved massively from the start (latest SS clearly > 130 and 1st decile on average across 4 topics). However, I can see she is getting used to the questions especially in Maths where the same or very similar questions tend to come back so my view has been that her scores are somewhat artificial. If your DS was used to Atom it might explain why he found the actual test harder.

2. The test is meant to be adaptive so if your DS found it hard, I'd say it's a pretty good sign that he's been doing well and thus was given harder questions.

Hi blocksmum, great info here and kind of you to share but there will be kids sitting the ISEB into the new year so I don’t think it’s a great idea to share so much information at this stage.

yes it does. I wonder if the same applies to the English, grammar etc ...
most people think that the maths and English for 11+ applies to the curriculum to the end of year 6, maybe it is not the case anymore !
is there tutor or maths teacher here who could clarify ? also it is possible possible that the year 6 curriculum is mostly a consolidation/ recap at a slightly higher level of the year 5 curriculum so the harder questions are really an extension of year 5.
who knows? we are now running out of time to cover chunks of the curriculum as the test is coming up very soon !!

aww interesting @LittleBlackBear, that would explain everything!

@Oceane11plus @iamthankful @montlieu thanks for your thoughts. Good to hear that others agree that ATOM maths mocks do go beyond Y5.
My theory is that ISEB pre test used to have some Y6 maths. There is a video on the ISEB website that says it includes first term of Y6. When I asked ISEB about this, they said the video was old, and as you said @montlieu, they restated what it says on their website ie up to end of Year 5. So it sounds like it’s changed, maybe to reflect lockdown/home schooling?
If the pre test did used to include some Y6 maths, it would explain why ATOM mocks do too as they are drawing on previous experience of the pre test.
Does this makes sense?!

@iamthankful and @montlieu Could it be that mastering the Year 5 curriculum would be equivalent to a certain standardized score (say average or probably above that actually) but to get close to a full score, a solid grasp of the Y6 curriculum would be needed (or at least a solid grasp of up-to-year-5 concepts but applied to situations usually not seen until Y6 or even later)? I obviously don't know, just speculating!

Just to clarify that my comment above is about Atom Learning and not the ISEB pre-test.

The ISEB website clearly says the maths and English are based on the year 5 curriculum.
I have emailed them myself to check and they just repeated the same thing.

Thanks @iamthankful That’s very interesting and reassuring re Atom scores vs actual scores.
I am also quite confused which is why I asked a question earlier re algebra as my DS (particularly strong in maths) sat the ISEB pre test a few years ago and I remember him telling me about some of the maths questions (I still remember them!) which in hindsight were WAY above the Y5 curriculum (more like Y7-8 questions). At the time I did not think much of it as we walked into the process very naively and I didn’t do much research about ISEB pre test so I had no idea it was supposed to be based on the Y5 curriculum. Maybe it has changed, I don’t know, but in any case it’s better to prep for more than less.

The Maths content however is way past year 5, some of the questions are so hard even for a high achieving year 5 (at the time could do year 7 & 8 Maths), I know this because my DS is very good at Maths and his 11+ was full standardised scores in Maths, however, he did find some of the questions quite hard, Atom is adaptive though, so I understand. My son's Atom mock scores were about 129/130 and he did go on to secure a scholarship at the independent school where we applied to, so do not be disheartened if the mock scores aren't too high, I think Atom is about 10 marks less.

@LittleBlackBear and @montlieu

Atom may well market themselves as a tool to get ready for Y7- after all it extends the number of months people sign up for- but they should, in my view, take the trouble to limit what goes into the mocks so that they are reflective of the exam. Not to do so not only creates unnecessary anxiety but can also be deleterious to exam preparation as it can skew prep towards areas of the curriculum that will not actually be covered in the exam- at the expense of revising areas that will definitely be in the exam- or having more free time.

We have actually eased off the Atom mocks now as they create stress for no little benefit and they can certainly forget us paying the subscription after this month.

@Stircrazyschoolmum thank you. We just keep going.

About the Atom and how much it reflects the actual exam, I also asked the same of Pretest plus. Does anyone have experience of this. DD in last week scoring a bit less on Atom, than she was a few weeks ago, but I’m taking a no stress approach. We will just keep practicing the papers as well and do 1 set mocks a week.

Thanks Oceane his personality is such that in maths he won’t just skip it, atm anyway.

Not sure how much to push him to in actual test. If he really can’t do it he will have to guess and move on otherwise he’ll be stuck. It’s against his nature though. Will see if he gets a bit easier re this.

Will probably pay for a month of Atom in the end to keep going.

Whilst I agree it’s annoying that they can’t go back to check/re-do past questions if they have any time left, I wouldn’t worry too much about it as the test is adaptive. If it takes too long for DC to answer a question, it usually means the question is above their level, and if they skip it, the next one should be more suited.

@MarshaBradyo Definitely move on after about 3 minutes if getting nowhere. Then when we go over the test again and check right/wrong answers, she will have another go at the question, taking the time she needs to find the answer. If she can’t find it, I step in to explain, sometimes checking Atom’s explanation but not always.

We’re coming to end of Atom trial. It’s better than I expected although I much prefer it if we had paper tests.

My issue is he stops for a while on a hard question. Do you encourage your dc to move on or sit there until they can do it?

We didn’t have timing issues with paper as he was good at coming back to it. Annoying

That's why they document that their scores are lower than the 'actual' scores.

Many thanks for all the replies. Really helpful. It makes sense that ATOM covers a more extensive curriculum, but it’s frustrating that their mocks aren’t a true representative of the actual ISEB pre test!

I agree. They want people hooked with fear and worry. Also,for eg I helped my child on a few questions—I was standing over this shoulder. But then I realised they say not to. Crap like that skews results, which are relative to the apparent cohort. And spot on, the Iseb is supposed to test year 5, esp given the lockdown. I’ve been told that school reports etc will now play a greater role than usual. Anyhow, as wiser parents of older kids have told me: there’s the right school for everyone! looking forward to this all being over SOON!

I concur, they have been in touch a several occasions now recommending we continue all the way to year 6 to be on top of the game when DC gets to year 7
when pushed they have said some of the questions also include some 13+ questions !!! don't despair it has sense with the logic of the questions getting harder and harder.
To be fair, there are lots of papers that include a couple of scholarship question at the end to discrimate the high achieving few
Also if it was too easy, who would need to pay the subscription ?