Camden School for Girls - Information needed

Dame Alice Owen and Latymer have musical entrance routes

I’m late to this was looking for something else and came across this thread - my daughter has a music place at CSG started September 2020. She found the music aptitude test easy, but was not top 3, she auditioned. Her friend was top 3. Both have been doing Suzuki violin since a young age, (6 and 3 respectively), my daughter has not sat exams, her friend has. So I don’t agree that the test doesn’t work for accomplished musicians, both girls are very accomplished players. And both girls practise every day (almost) as per the Suzuki method.
The banding test on the other hand, she found very difficult. Possibly because we took them at their word and didn’t prepare. Possibly because she was Montessori educated through primary school and was not used to taking tests. I wasn’t at all worried as I knew she had no chance of getting in via distance, but she was upset, so in hindsight I would have done some preparation with her.
So she was band D, which I have never told her, I just said they don’t tell us what band you are in.
That seems to make no difference to anything though, as having just had our first parents evening it turns out she is at the top or near the top of her class in almost all subjects, and apparently has a gift for science. 🤷‍♀️

@Breastfeedingworries Wonderful & such special years to enjoy.

Yes, good point to recap on about it not being a fee paying school and we are lucky to have several great State schools like this in London but sadly all massively oversubscribed or with selective aptitude and scholarship access (and some unfairly or differently) as @SevDem has outlined, so key advice would be to research each individual school’s criteria well in advance and look at historical info available on how places were allocated etc. This can all change year on year. Good luck to all.

Really sorry for derailing the thread op and thanks for the advice mumrules10

We do everything you’ve said and there’s so much love between us. My dds got a great sense of humour and we laugh every day. She had the terrible twos early and has become a little star. (Also One of her first words, she points out star shapes everywhere we go lol) shes Easy to reason with, she’s a joy to be around.

I’ve read this isn’t a fees school so sorry for missing that.

@Breastfeedingworries I hear you but 100% rest assured a huge amount can change in that time. All your little one needs at this age is love, love and more love. Fun play, songs and rhymes, outdoors play, nature, you talking to them, travel where you can, chat to each and everyone all walks of life, read them lots of books and play a bit of music by all means and let them create and explore as they need to. Lots of exposure for all senses. I remember being told that 5 is a good age to introduce an instrument if they love music, but any earlier is just a bit much.

You might think a your child is capable of a scholarship or academic all the way up to the applicable age (as I did and have to keep reminding myself), but it then turns out that actually that isn’t the case. The reality is very different and easy to find oneself surrounded by a cohort of very bright and able children and the competition super tough esp if one’s child has not been to a prep school. Yet saying that, I know many who finish state school primary - well rounded and naturally able with very minimal tutor input - and they make the mark and several gaining scholarships (art / music / academic) at both privates and sought after states.

But ultimately you want a happy child and a right fit for your child and to let them enjoy the learning and process along the way so that they can be a happier person in the future.

If you are unable to afford the schooling later, that is what bursaries are for and some of the best schools offer many great options if your child has the academic ability and passes the assessment.

Sorry @SevDem I realise I have moved this away from the original point of your thread which is a great and honest digress. It is a good thing you have aired your views on the musical aptitude for CSG. I expect it has to be that much more rigorous due to the high number of applicants. Yet and unfair selective process if the bar is set so high and uniquely. Each school has their own approach it seems and none of them perfect and important not to be disheartened. I am pleased you have a great first choice and with a sibling there.

Are you sure you're thinking of the right school @Breastfeedingworries ?
CSG isn't a fee-paying school.

Okay I’ll elaborate I’m interested in the idea of scholarships as I’m a single parent and unlikely to earn enough to pay for a place. Maybe in 8 years I’ll be better off or married but I curious and wanted to read on and think about what activities and hobbies like music could support my dd.
(She seems very bright ect and it’s pointless posting about any toddlers achievements without sounding like “that” mum)

Anyway I’m only reading this ect to gain a bit of info. She’s starting nursery next week.

@MumsRule10 Luckily she has a sibling in Fortismere School so will be applying there/ very similar to CSG but mixed. She did actually get 21st place MAT in Ashmole School but we aren’t considering it as Fortismere results are better. CSG MAT didn’t include pitch and texture, this test isn’t relevant in my opinion & shouldn’t be allowed. My daughter said that the Ashmole test included everything and made so much more sense unlike the CSG. I honestly feel bad putting her through it after all
that preparation, what a waste of time! I know every school has their own rules but this test is unfair

@Breastfeedingworries Seriously??? Hope you are kidding!! How did you end up on this thread? Don’t for a minute start thinking about Secondary school! You will miss all the super precious moments you have with your bubba. Even thinking about nursery should maybe just be entering your head. I have only just and am still trying to work out best fit for my child now, in my experience it only becomes clear what their strengths truly are in terms of academic / development / personality etc. when they are about 10 years old that you get an inkling and even then as she says it is so hard to know if a school we choose is really the right one until we are there as everything before is based on positive spin / marketing / here-say etc. Schools also change constantly. Who knows where you will be living 8 years? I hope you were kidding ;)

@SevDem I am sorry yours just missed the mark. Tough call when it comes so close and hear it really is much more rigorous process at CSG (which is why we gave it a miss). So, what are you thinking to do now? Only a few days left before application deadline. Nerve wracking business...

@SevDem No, she didn’t do the musical
aptitude as we knew it would be such a long shot for CSG and I know a number of girls who tried there and SMG this year and didn’t get through first round. She only did the musical aptitude test for WLFS on Friday and unfortunately didn’t get that. Again, highly competitive, although I know children who got a place via musical aptitude in recent years separately at either of the schools. We really had no expectations as she isn’t overly musical and we didn’t prep. She just has an enjoyment but it is not an absolute forte.

Shamelessly want to follow this thread for information. My dd is only 23 months

@MumsRule10 Thankyou for explaining. Did your child do their musical aptitude test?

@MissScotland As in she didn’t pass the Musical Aptitude test. We did sign up

Thanks SevDem - the banding is related to their scoring from the GL Assessment (A being the highest scoring) so that they can evenly distribute intake across all abilities), but the school are unable to disclose the exact scoring, just the band for admissions purposes.

My daughter is in Band B but we won’t be applying as she wasn’t accepted for the aptitude test, missed by a few marks. I’m a little confused with the Banding, are the higher bands related to higher marks in the test?

It would be great to know how some got on at the recent musical aptitudes? Including SMG / WLFS & of course CSG. Also how about banding at CSG? We tried WLFS but didn’t make the mark but no big expectations as my child is not overly musical but simply enjoys playing piano and has learnt several other instruments.

I was really dismayed my child’s Band was disclosed as C following her test, as would have expected B as she has been mildly tutored this past year but goes to a State Primary.

Obviously, being for admissions purposes and not streamed classes, I am not letting it bother me too much!

@Vinorosso74 I wish all Musical Aptitude students the best!

Well I think DD's friend has done well! The head of music sounds interesting.....
I think this thread explains the reason we have not gone for the selective route for DD.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow

This is where I get confused, I understand you completely but the school insists that the child doesn’t need to be musical at all when doing the aptitude test. What’s the point then? Out of the fifty they pick out the most musical, so ultimately they have to be very good with their ear and playing. I actually asked this question to the school, they replied by saying that the government makes them to this particular aptitude test, and the School deals with the audition. I’m not 100% but this test is completely different to most schools.
How did it go for you last year? What Schools were you interested in if you don’t mind me asking. I don’t like pressurising my daughter generally, and she loves playing her own tunes etc but I really had to push her with these MAT tests, it’s been exhausting!!

More and more children are playing to high level these days without doing any exams at all. They're certainly not required.

There's a lot to be said for playing for enjoyment and not just hunting down the next certificate and not being on the exam treadmill means you can cover far more material and in different directions.

Having done a large number of the MAT tests last year, I would say that they are reasonably good at picking out very musical children - the chances of a child who isn't getting through them is practically zero. However the child with the G8 certificate may just not have as good an ear or actually be as musical as the child with no certificates at all or a G2 or 3.

www.theguardian.com/profile/willbyers?page=3

I think you might get a flavour of the “agenda” of the HoM by re-reading the old Guardian articles?

Surely getting to grade 8 is as much about keeping on doing it, parental input, tuition, as it is about aptitude. It’s about being able to recreate someone else’s musical ideas.

I get the impression musical aptitude is different or includes some of the above but is more than it.

Parli anyone?

Vinorosso74 Not necessarily, there are grade 8 students that didn’t get into the top 50 and this shows that the test isn’t reliable. I don’t know what their agenda is to be honest, and frankly don’t care anymore. Somethings don’t happen for a good reason, onwards and upwards

A friend of DD is into the top 50 for this year and has the performance test this week. She has been learning piano for a few years now and they did learn violin as a class at school in Y4 and Y5. I would say she is a good musician for a 10 year old (certainly not a grade 8) and interested so in her case the test has done what it maybe should do.
My DD only did the banding test no music tests.