How much harder is Further Maths Alevel than Maths?

As I said before, FM is next to never listed as an absolute requirement because not all schools offer it, and no university wants to deter a talented candidate from applying because of the school they went to.

Some CompSci courses are very maths heavy, and much harder work in the first year if you are having to catch up on maths. That's why it's worth checking what subjects/grades successful candidates actually have (this applies beyond CompSci to any course which says 'desirable' for a subject)

I did further maths many years ago. It was mind bendingly hard at the time but meant that plain A level maths was a walk in the park. It stood me in good stead for an Oxbridge science degree.

Whilst it's hard, there's less to learn overall than doing e.g. maths and French, because of the overlap, and there will be even more overlap for anyone doing physics or chemistry as well.

FM A level is pretty tough. DH dropped it. I had to follow the syllabus in my first year at uni while students without a C or better in A level maths caught up and some of the calculus was pretty mind blowing - I got an A at A level Maths with little difficulty but I felt like that was my natural ceiling. Happens I also got a first in the further maths module at uni but I haven't a clue how.

FM is also highly desirable for many Computer Science courses

Pupils who are more interested in logic and the whole language of maths and how it works, are more likely to do well (as opposed to those who are good at doing the calculations)

The top University (Oxford) say it would be helpful. Not essential, not even recommended... Just helpful.

That's often the published position, because they do not want to put off the talented which do not offer FM. In practice, you may well find that nearly everyone the course has it, and it can leave those without it playing catch up in the first term. Always worth seeing if you can find a 'what qualifications joiners really have' for courses DC are interested in

I did further maths. I could keep up, but to the detriment of my other three A levels, so after about a term and a half I gave it up. Shame, it was fun but so time consuming.

@Hellohah I agree that it is not required. However I would argue that it is important. We can agree to disagree

@FarTooSkinny...

It is still not actually required, whichever way you read it, and therefore not very important.

@Hellohah

That is a slight misreading of Oxford's approach. Their website states "The Oxford Physics course is highly-mathematical. We expect that all students who are accepted to study Physics at Oxford would be capable of achieving a Grade A in Further Maths A-level"

They also state that if you don't have further maths A Level students must undertake extra work in the summer vacation and their first term to catch-up with their peers

[quote FarTooSkinny]@RuthW
Her maths teacher said forget further maths unless you are planning on taking maths at degree level.

@HipTightOnions
Not worth bothering unless you want to do a degree in maths

Not quite true. If you want to study engineering or physics at a top tier university then further maths is very important.[/quote]
@FarTooSkinny

DS was looking at a few Physics courses, so he worked his way down the rankings list of University and looked at the requirements.

The top University (Oxford) say it would be helpful. Not essential, not even recommended... Just helpful.

@HipTightOnions sorry I quoted the wrong post.

Not quite true. If you want to study engineering or physics at a top tier university then further maths is very important.

That’s what I said, @FarTooSkinny! (The bold part was quoting another poster.)

@RuthW
Her maths teacher said forget further maths unless you are planning on taking maths at degree level.

@HipTightOnions
Not worth bothering unless you want to do a degree in maths

Not quite true. If you want to study engineering or physics at a top tier university then further maths is very important.

Also bear in mind that FM students will spend a lot of their time studying maths, so they really have to enjoy it.

Although he’s clearly very capable, not revising for mocks, and giving up GCSE FM might suggest his heart’s not completely in it?

Not worth bothering unless you want to do a degree in maths.

F Maths is also extremely helpful for some engineering degrees.

DS got an 8 at GCSE & found FM really hard. He got an A at A level for maths & a C for FM.

Could your DS not do the 4 A levels and EPQ to begin with, then drop either FM or EPQ once he had made up his mind which he preferred?

My dd2 is going to take A level maths and Further maths, but she is extremely talented and loves maths. She is expected to get 9
DD1 dropped out of A level maths after two weeks despite getting grade 8 because she found it too difficult.
So anyone considering Further Maths must
have a natural flair for maths.

In my opinion based on a DH and DD who excel at maths and me and other D.C. who are average.
If you can pass your GCSE with an A with ease and love maths and the teachers predict you will get an A or A at A level then further maths is an option. But only if it is relevant to your chosen degree path, maths or physics for example. At DD school the few that did FM were in a separate class for all maths and worked at a completely different level.
If you are at GCSE A or B and/or need to work for it then it is just not worth it and you are not going to get a result you are happy with.

I did Maths and Further maths alevels 25 years ago and I know things have changed.

When I did it, the topics on the pure and stats sides weren't significantly harder for me, it was the time pressure to learn the breadth of material in 9 months.
The mechanics I did find a lot harder, and unlike half the class I wasn't doing physics, so didn't have that reinforcement.

It was worth it, it made the maths classes at uni (for computing degree) a doddle.

Further maths GCSE is nothing to do with further maths A-level, it’s designed to help bridge the gap to maths A-level so you can definitely do FM A-level without the GCSE.

I think a Y11 who found FM GCSE too much and dropped it might not be the best FM A-level candidate though. There’s a lot of maths when you are studying two A-levels in it so you have to be really keen on it.

DS is only doing Maths GCSE. They were going to do Further Maths but for whatever reason never started the COURSE (I Athink staffing problems).

Would A Level Further Maths be too much without the GCSE?

My son did both initially but gave up Further Maths pretty quickly. It’s hard and you need to be v keen and live maths. He hit an A* in A level maths too. Worth bearing in mind that the new linear maths is much harder than old modular A level.

I agree with what's been said. Not worth bothering unless you want to do a degree in maths. My dd did it, then a level, then a masters degree and is now a secondary school maths teacher but she overtook maths ability aged 7.