Winchester, St. Paul's, or Eton?

"Bullying isn't something that this old school had never heard of or knew anything about. Just like the school's foundation, this actively has been consigned to history long ago. It is absolutely not tolerated!!!"

And that's what I said just a couple or so months ago. But of course, inevitably, there would be born-losers somehow, somewhere, who would deem it fit to emerge from the woodwork to expose themselves and exhibit their stupidity and ignorance. Instead of coming to a thread like this to learn and be enlightened, they rather tell the world their insecurity and show their chip on their shoulder!

And here I was thinking it was only a "recent" thing that Eton had done away with bullying until I saw this earlier this week that bullying in fact, had seen its last daylight long before most all of you were even born! And to think I had even read this gentleman's book, 'CRY HAVOC' when it was first published in 2011...

[beginning final minute]
"It's a big school. . .even then there were 1200 boys. And it was extremely tolerant. There was no bullying - I never encountered any real bullying at Eton. Which in those days was quite unusual compared with what one heard from other schools. . ." Simon Mann, mercenary extraordinaire.

Well just a view if your choice ( if he is accepted ) is between St Paul's Winchester or Eton then you are very very fortunate & my advice would be 1) do you want full boarding or not ( If you do then strike out St Paul's as others have said ) and once done 2) where does your DS feel most comfortable - and that is the school he should go to.

IMHO the whole Winchester boys are introverted social misfits thing who couldn't catch a ball with a fishing net ( I exaggerate for effect ) is just out of date nonsense. As far as I can see they are quietly confident boys and a few of them are quite good at sport & art ( shocker ) ( but they don't have the acres of rugby pitches - indeed none ) - Equally not every boy from Eton will be PM and many are just nice well rounded & clever young men. I do think that if that is the choice you have - let your DS make the choice in that I am a believer if a DS chooses where he feels comfortable - he will thrive.

It seems to me that if you ( one) accepts that principle then the choice between W & E really is off the scale as to 1st world problems - both will give a fantastic education - possibly with slightly different slants - but both fantastic. If you are really considering St Paul's ( i.e. you don't really want full boarding - then obviously Westminster would be a natural place to consider also - again both fabulous schools. )

So not sure abut the comments about ages of your children , but if these schools are genuine serious contenders then let your DS make his choice.

I wish you and he well

Dear PGWo, in my opinion Winchester is good for timid and introvert boys, the school is rather smaller and kids are not driven by being macho in sport.

Extrovert boys may do well too. I was doing a lot of research on this when my son got offer last year. Happygardening and another kind woman called Faslene also gave me a kind helpful advise here. I was not sure at the time if Winchester is right for my son since he is very sporty but quite, bright but not that academic compare to others (he is very very good in some of the subjects but terrible in many). I went to talk to many of the current boys and boys who recently left and it seems Winchester is very much like university, you can find your own niche and interest in Winchester, there is no right or wrong. No need to be good in sport to be cool but now they are also trying to be more rounded and they are getting better in sport , beating the like of Marlborough in football and lost to Eton and Charterhouse just 2-1.

Nowadays Winchester is also little bit more open and if you get an offer they will invite you and your son to 'Our journey together' event where you will be able to attend activities together with your son (there are choices such as sport, Div ( general knowledge class which is a core of Winchester), Sculpture and print, Natural History, Music, Art History, heritage books collection at the library. We went to the event and got a better idea of what the school is like. The headmaster and dons are to be there to discuss whatever you need to know. I think if your DS like intellectual environment and liberal education here is one of the best place.

I think comparing school by how many prime minister is little bit silly. Not every kid dreams to be a world leader. I mean it is great to have some schools that produce a world leader and that place is may be good for someone who wants to increase their chance of becoming one. It is really depend on that your DS are like and what kind of environment will make him thrive, he properly wants to run a private equity funds somewhere quietly or be a professors somewhere or even a musician or and artist, nothing is wrong. But who knows he could start quietly and excel somewhere and turn out to be a world leader. Que Sera Sera.

A narrow contribution, but is you are looking for London boarding for a very academic non-sporty child, Westminster trumps StPs. It runs on boarding school lines, and has substantially more boarders. Yes they take girls in the sixth form, but I thought StPs were considering the same. Girls are still a minority and sixth form is quite different from the rest of the school. Co Ed at 16 is, in my view, a good preparation for the next step.

Hi @PGWo!

My colleagues and I work with schools. Education is the 'industry' we are in.

Most kids will be fine at most schools; some will be fine at only some schools; some will not be ok at any school. Fundamentally, it's not about the school - it's about the core maturity and the emotional and social intelligence of the boy and how strong and fast a learner he is about life. How well will your son adapt and how quickly?

Winchester is significantly more academic and Eton has a few more boys who are movers and shakers. Each has boys who are nice and boys who are not.

I would target either Eton or Winchester, plus St Paul's. .... Harrow?

@Peteneras " It is common for Masters to address boys, even very young ones, as "Sir" (individually) and "Gentlemen" when in a group." ... well, that really prepares them for grown up life and helps explain while they feel so entitled.

“How sad! Little do they realise the odds are massively stacked against them and with only

@EtonianMother

It’s peteneras!

I wouldn't do Winchester if I were you unless an academic push is the primary focus here or you genuinely love the school. I'd look at Harrow, Marlborough, though all schools have their problems I admit, ultimately you just want a good fit.

I do think BJ is only one Etonian - clearly there have been many successful PMs from Eton and 1? from Winchester. It's not the only thing that counts but it says something, more connected, better socially, better OE group...
It depends on which environment your son is most comfortable in - Winchester is better for mavericks to grow at their own pace I'd say and Eton is just generally more rounded - undeniably in sport.. Maybe Winchester for a gentler, less sporty child and Eton for a more average boy. I agree neither are particularly STEM strong although I think both are good in them just not many from public schools choose to read science and engineering at uni - History, PPE etc are much more popular. Equally academic I'd say though sometimes Eton doesn't have that rep so much as Winchester - Winchester is known mainly for academics, not sport, not for running the country.. something to be said.
I know people who are massively unhappy at Winchester - find it cut off, boring, full of social outcasts - maybe not to that extent it all depends on your perception and how you blend with the rest, your house, classmates, etc, also Eton some do leave to go to Marlborough etc but not many at all

@Bringringbring12 Oh dear, no I haven't!

@Delta1, Happygardening was very helpful to me too, years ago (when I was also posting under another name).

Having said that I am also a big happygardening fan so wasn't keen on the attack on her. I find her posts extremely balanced.

I have also been helped by @peteneras - under a previous incarnation tho , I've NC'd a couple of times over the years. I found her very helpful and kind with her time.

@EtonianMother

Have you heard about the batty mother from ten years ago that is a source of much chuckling amongst the staff and parents?!

Eton don't take in 9-year-olds. Don't know what you're doing in here. But he has to grow up quick and register in less than 18 months time and hopefully behave more like a teenager when he's a teenager.

I think my view of Eton being the best school in any universe is reasonably well balanced - but in @peteneras' defence, I would say that he/she (always assumed Pete was a man!) was immensely helpful to me via MN and private messaging when my DS was applying for a scholarship some years ago.

It's hard to describe the school to an outsider, but it's definitely 'not just a school'.

My son is 9.

I have hit a nerve clearly! As I say, would be interesting (and no doubt funny) to learn Eton’s view of you!

A mother once said, "I gave Eton a boy and they returned me a man".

Looks like you're better off home-educating him.

From your nervousness and desire to protect your 13-year-old still treating him like a baby, it's best to keep him under your skirt. Fact of the matter is no school on this earth, private or state, will be suitable for a 13-year-old baby and still growing. Certainly not at Eton and so my advice is to forget it.

On the basis of your comments, I would be interested to learn how Eton view you (that utterly odd mother that still displays baffling and irritating behaviour from 10 years ago I suspect!)

* nt. The boys know it and all will be forgotten in a few short minutes.*

FGS. They are not all identikits. Surely surely surely you can see that this is a completely daft comment

* Yes, my DS left School almost ten years ago. But I do get in touch with the school and some senior masters and even some current parents yearly without fail about certain Etonian business - the last time only two months ago. Not to mention the family also receives the School's annual 'Eton - OEA Review' magazine detailing about all the latest important aspects of the school. In addition, I also get regular emails from various sources throughout the year updating me the latest news and developments.*

And the basis of ^^ you speak in very dogmatic terms. As for this being your ongoing experience and yet concluding that bullying hardly exists... well, that’s just reckless and irresponsible as could encourage vulnerable parents feeling very emotional and desperate about their bullied child to put him in Eton. You need to be careful what you say about schools. We are talking about children here.

I was at pains somewhere upthread to describe unsuccessfully it now seems about this thing called, "ethos" of a school, particularly a traditional old medieval school like Eton with its near 600-year experience of dealing with teenage boys living together 24/7.

Bullying isn't something that this old school had never heard of or knew anything about. Just like the school's foundation, this actively has been consigned to history long ago. It is absolutely not tolerated!!!

The ethos here is one of respect towards everyone. Pupils to pupils; boys to boys; boys to masters and vice versa. It is common for Masters to address boys, even very young ones, as "Sir" (individually) and "Gentlemen" when in a group. That's the kind of respect the school expects from the whole community.

But we are talking about full-blooded teenagers, largely alpha males, here. The school will be in denial if it thinks all the boys are angels sent from heaven. Obviously there inevitably will be some boisterous individuals "having a go" at another regardless (sometimes even in front of masters) but all done in a jovial manner with no ill intent. The boys know it and all will be forgotten in a few short minutes.

Isn't competition the byeword of the school that goes on to produce so many future leaders?

I don't follow football, but I think your comparison with football is very apt. Your posts show the same level of unhealthy tribalism as an obsessed football fan.

You have no idea whether there is a bullying problem. You have knowledge of a specific boy's experience in a specific house, several years ago. It isn't reasonable to declare on a thread that bullying hardly exists at Eton when you simply don't know.

It's a school. Just a school.

Bringringbring12, I do concede some of my writings emerge as a bit bonkers. But believe me they were deliberately intended that way to bring a bit of relief into these boards which sometimes seem to be a bit overheated. As someone upthread said, we are only talking about schools, for heaven's sake. I must confess it did make me smile a bit my "unhinged" comments did bring about some laughter as some pp have revealed. Please don't take me seriously.

Yes, my DS left School almost ten years ago. But I do get in touch with the school and some senior masters and even some current parents yearly without fail about certain Etonian business - the last time only two months ago. Not to mention the family also receives the School's annual 'Eton - OEA Review' magazine detailing about all the latest important aspects of the school. In addition, I also get regular emails from various sources throughout the year updating me the latest news and developments.

Sad to learn the former Head Master and Provost of Eton has passed away just 9 days ago. RIP Sir Eric Anderson.

Hope your son is successful when the time comes. It really is an amazing school!