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First day in school. Are we in Germany 1933?

63 replies

andlondon · 21/04/2020 13:18

(I believe my post will be removed, as there is no democracy here and all think like one, but I cannot keep silence anymore).

First day in school (online) after holiday. DD got the following problem to solve (and kids widely discuss it on a chat):

In a hospital ward there are four terminally ill people. Three need medicines that are not in stock and cannot be provided. Without the medicines they will die. The fourth will die anyway. The three can be saved with organ transplantation: first with heart, second with lungs, third with liver. What should be done: (a) nothing and then all four will die. (b) kill the fourth and transplant his organs to other three.

Have you seen the movie “Life Is Beautiful” 1997? In fascist Italy the school children were given a problem: ‘How much will the country save if they stop feeding the mentally ill?’

So our children in school are hinted with the following: the government will not lift a finger in order to produce masks, ventilators, protective equipment etc. We don’t need to think about this. We just need to decide: who will die and who will live. Whom to connect to ventilator and whom do disconnect. Whom to send to intensive care and whom to send home to die.

If this is not fascism then what is this?

The government and the prime minister did not lift a finger to close airports, to trace and isolate infected and to test people when the epidemy was already ravaging in four countries: China, South Korea, Japan, Italy. The government did nothing to produce ventilators, masks, hand gel, protective suits. How did South Korea and Japan manage to completely stop this? Why in Germany 4,500 dead and in UK 16,000?

Why the criminal government and its prime minister are not investigated and not sent to court for sabotaging the struggle with the epidemy, for the treason to their people, for 16,000 dead?
Why instead of saying that “We will struggle for every ill person and we will do anything to save lives” the prime minister says “Oh, you need to prepare yourself to loose many of your relatives and friends”? and why that prime minister ignores five meeting in a row of the COBRA (Emergency Cabinet)?

Why do we need, like the North Koreans, to clap to NHS - where doctors and nurses are not provided with basic equipment and die from the infection, whilst in other countries healthcare workers have all they need? Why do people clap to them like to clowns who dance under the circus dome without any protection?

Is human life valued at all in this country or we just need to say “Oh, I am so sorry that people die”? “Oh, it’s such a shame there are not enough masks”. “Oh, it such a shame people crowd outdoors without masks spreading virus and contributing to the death toll”.

But what can be done? Our country is so poor. We have no enough budget. We cannot produce masks. It is too hard for our industry. We cannot produce ventilators. We cannot produce virus test kits. We cannot produce hand gel. Our police is unable to dispense crowds. Out policemen don't have masks, equipment, cars. There are actually no policemen on the streets at all!

We could not close airports. Our airport workers don’t know how to do this. We could not deprive our citizens of the joy of going to ski in Italy and bringing the infection back with them, and we could not isolate them when they landed back in Heathrow/Gatwick. There are no isolation rooms there :( Such a shame!

So what can be done? Just nothing. It’s our fate. Let’s just choose whom to disconnect from the ventilator. And let's keep strolling outside - such a good weather! Perhaps some more elderly will get infected and die because we stroll outside, but come on! those elderly would have died anyway, right?

And let’s prepare to lose our relatives and friends. And don’t forget to say “sorry” on every occasion and in every direction, and clap to our brilliant government and the healthcare system.

OP posts:
HandfulOfDust · 21/04/2020 13:46

Pretty much this OP, I think you need to step away from the gin. This is not the part of Mumsnet for an unhinged rant about the current situation - it’s an education forum.

KrakowDawn · 21/04/2020 13:44

I think you need to go back to school and learn what fascism is.

Tootletum · 21/04/2020 13:39

Standard philosophy question. As to the rest of your post, absolutely no idea!

PorpentiaScamander · 21/04/2020 13:36

We often had topics along those lines to discuss and debate.
One was about who should get the limited lifeboat spaces on a sinking ship.
There were no right or wrong answers but we had to back up our argument with more than "just because"

Gzornpla · 21/04/2020 13:31

Of course, I meant ‘to’ and not ‘too’!

Gzornpla · 21/04/2020 13:29

OP, I think you need to step away from the gin. This is not the part of Mumsnet for an unhinged rant about the current situation - it’s an education forum.

Personally, I call bullish*t on your DD’s “problem to solve”. At most, it’s a scenario to stimulate a debate on medical ethics and moral philosophy which, depending on the age of your DD, seems perfectly legitimate to me. Too extrapolate from this to a question of a totally different nature from a movie and then to a verbal projectile vomiting about the UK response to COVID-19 is, frankly, ludicrous.

SunnySomer · 21/04/2020 13:27

My son has done almost the identical question in Personal Development (PSHE). The whole point was to prompt discussion. It seems odd and ill-thought out to get the students to do this online and at this point in time though.

sashh · 21/04/2020 13:26

It's a version of the 'the trolly problem', it's very well known, it's been around since the mid 1980s at least.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

PotteringAlong · 21/04/2020 13:25

amelie they might; I’ve posed similar questions to my a-level ethics classes.

AmelieTaylor · 21/04/2020 13:23

Bullshit your kids got asked this by a teacher

PotteringAlong · 21/04/2020 13:22

It’s like the fat man dilemma. It’s a philosophical and ethical argument to be had.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/books/review/would-you-kill-the-fat-man-and-the-trolley-problem.amp.html

GuyFawkesDay · 21/04/2020 13:22

Sounds like a philosophy lesson.

Utilitarianism Vs other philosophical ideas.

GoldenOmber · 21/04/2020 13:20

Were the children told 'killing one person is the correct answer', or were they given it as a moral philosophy thought experiment? There's quite a difference.