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Original poster

Year 9 and Year 10 GCSE students - unfairly treated by Ofqual?

187 replies

barbosska · 04/04/2020 17:27

Students in our school sit GCSE exams in Years 9,10,11. Each of these year groups has lessons in Math, English, Science plus 2-3 GCSE courses of their choice. Each GCSE course runs for a year instead of two, and students from Year 9,10 and 11 all sit together in the same lessons and then sit GCSEs together. They do not study any other subjects except for the above.

Yesterday's Ofqual indicated that Year 9 and 10 students will not be awarded the GCSE grades because they can do these exams in Year 11. This would however put them in a highly disadvantageous position next Year, as not only they would need to do remaining GCSEs in one year instead of two, but also to keep on top of the subjects they have learnt this year and for which they were ready to sit exams.

There are not many schools in the country who organise GCSEs this way and I would very much appreciate to hear from people in the same situation as us: what are you and your schools planning to do?

All these children have sat in one class listening to the same teacher, did the same job, had the same teacher and now Year 11 will get the grades and the rest of students will not - how is that fair? Ofqual should have at least left to the discretion of the schools whether to , but not just pull them all out from the exam registers. Ofqual said they will run a consultation soon, but who are they going to consult - just their internal departments? The fact they they have come up with the proposition already indicates that they have no idea how some schools structure their courses.

OP posts:
drumblebumble · 04/04/2020 23:11

Our school does Short Course GCSE RE in y10. They're not gaming the system - the results don't even count in the league tables. They do it for experience of an external exam a year ahead of the real deal, and as it's just a short course (worth half a GCSE) it fits easily into the year. There is no RE timetabled for y11, so if they can't get a grade this summer, I hope they'll be able to sit the exam in the Autumn. If not, then they probably won't sit it at all as they'll be concentrating on their other subjects.

Original poster
barbosska · 04/04/2020 23:07

StampMc
The school is checked at standard intervals, this is what I have meant regularly.

According to Ofqual document, exams in September are only for those who is unhappy with the grade. If Y 10 is not awarded grades, they cannot sit exams in September.

OP posts:
MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 04/04/2020 23:06

Manage

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 04/04/2020 23:05

But maybe you don’t think they can mane that🤷‍♀️

TheFallenMadonna · 04/04/2020 23:05

Ofsted can't force a change of curriculum. They can only report on the quality of education. Do you mean you have regular monitoring visits?

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 04/04/2020 23:03

Because studying 11 multiple subjects at GCSE level, to be sat at the same time requires a much more in-depth ability to study/prioritise and revise than sitting two at a time and you equating that to titting about on your phone at the same time as cooking a meal is very disingenuous and I think you know that... otherwise you wouldn’t have said how your daughter struggled when she had to do it.

Your school is gaming the system and lost the game this time around. Your DC has another two years to study for their GCSE’s so is not disadvantaged at all-it will actually just put them back in the same playing field as everyone else.

StampMc · 04/04/2020 23:00

Why is your school being checked by ofsted on a “regular basis” if it’s top 3%? Our school isn’t anywhere near that and ofsted have been strangers since 2011.

StampMc · 04/04/2020 22:58

Current year 9s can start y10 and do their GCSEs at the end of year 11 like a normal school.
Current y10s could either sit the ones they’ve done in November or sit them together with their new subjects in the summer. You can’t argue that getting a 9 in y9 (or y10) is better than getting it in y11 if the exact same student is incapable of actually getting it in y11. It’s a shame your school is bonkers but the point of giving grades to y11s is so they can move on to the next stage, which isn’t necessary for Y10 and y9.

Original poster
barbosska · 04/04/2020 22:49

Easilyanxious

Has you child studied RE for 1 year so far, if they had to sit it this summer?

You are right, even with one GCSE moved to the next summer creates a mess, and with three its even worse.

OP posts:
Original poster
barbosska · 04/04/2020 22:48

ProggyMat

Y 9: Latin, Spanish (the students chose what they liked)
Y 10: Eng Language (compulsory), History, French (both he chose)
Y11: Math, English Lit, 3 Sciences and One other subject of choice

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Original poster
barbosska · 04/04/2020 22:43

MrsElijahMikaelson1

the school is being checked by Ofsted on a regular basis and if they have not forced the school to change the system then I suppose this is a workable model in the country.

I am sorry you are flummoxed that I cannot see why 9 in Y11 is more valuable than 9 in Y9. It is like saying that it is better to cook, clean, read, speak on the phone and watch TV at the same time and do it all perfectly than to do them perfectly one after another.

OP posts:
Easilyanxious · 04/04/2020 22:41

I was told by our school they hadn't made a decision yet as my year 10 was doing just one exam a year early and they have studied for this the same as year 11. I actually like the idea and reasons why the school have done it for this one exam but it will mess it all up if they have to take it next year . I'm hoping they maybe able to take it sooner but my understanding is a decision hasn't been made as yet

ProggyMat · 04/04/2020 22:30

barbosska
Ah, thanks for explaining the split across years.
What was the other subject your DS sat last year in Yr9 ?
And which 3 subjects would he have sat this May/June -if not in the same position as the current Yr11s are?

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 04/04/2020 22:29

Your DC school played the system to help its results table-your DC school lost. I would be more mindful of complaining about that and why the school decided to not oblige by DfE guidelines rather than raging about why the gaming didn’t work!
And yes, a grade 9 in history when you’re also taking another 9 exams at the same time, IS better than a grade 9 when only studying/sitting another 2 exams and I am flummoxed as t to why you can’t see that tbh 🤷‍♀️

AprilFloundering · 04/04/2020 22:16

Blame your school.

My Year 10 was due to sit one GCSE this year, along with all the other year 10s: Ethics/RE. It's mandatory anyway at our school and it gives them a reality check of what they'll need to do in Year 11 if they don't take it seriously.

The only other GCSEs taken early around here as far as i can tell are a small number of students take Art or Music GCSEs early, generally those who have amazing talent in those areas anyway and can get it out of the way with high marks, while continuing to study all the regular other roughly 10 GCSE courses.

titchy · 04/04/2020 22:02

Yes they were 10 years ago. Then OFSTED and DfE realised that schools like this were gaming the system, and it was giving kids a very poor educational experience and yes it does pull grades down, and all but banished it.

Some unis (E.g. for Medical courses ranked applicants by gcse grade - best 8 of those taken in year 11 - it's unusual but bars your schools kids from offers).

GCSEs are designed for the maturity level of 16 year olds. Not 14 year olds.

6 GCSEs in year 11 is not a full workload - that's what I meant about kids struggling with the leap to A level. Particularly if they haven't studied the subject for one or two years. Imagine loving Humanities or languages, and no longer studying them beyond age 14, having to do Maths and science instead (why - less maturity needed for those) for two years. How to turn teens off eduction!

noblegiraffe · 04/04/2020 21:54

Yes they were a regular occurrence 10 years ago and it was shit and kids did worse than they would have done if they’d sat their GCSEs at the correct time - published research showed this.

And that’s why the DfE implemented the ‘first entry only’ rule for the league tables and Ofsted told schools to STOP DOING IT.

Original poster
barbosska · 04/04/2020 21:53

This is an old article, but it looks like early GCSE were a regular occurrence 10 years ago

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11071156

OP posts:
Original poster
barbosska · 04/04/2020 21:47

titchy

"...And did every single kid get 3 x 9s in year 9? No. So the ones who didn't have been short changed. They would undoubtedly have got better grades with two years maturity."

May be , may be not. They may have been distracted by teenage interests:)

"...And most kids that only ever sit 3 subjects at a time will struggle when suddenly they're expected to do three times that at A Level."

They do not do only three subjects. They do Math, English, Sciences + 3 GCSEs in Y 10. In Y11 they will do 6 GCSEs. And at A level they all do 3 subjects anyway.

"There are also a handful of uni courses that your school has ruled its kids out of - unis expect kids to be able to cope with 8 subjects at a time."

Those who go to Unis will do A levels first, which from my understanding should prepare one for the Uni.

I am not advocating the system our school has. It was not our choice but it worked well for us.

From all respondents on this thread it looks that only one other person has a similar system in their school, but less radical, they do 1 GCSE in Y 9 and 1 in Y 10.

OP posts:
Original poster
barbosska · 04/04/2020 21:38

ProggyMat

They do 2 GCSEs in Y9, 3 in Y 10 and 6 in Y 11. He did 3 GCSE in Y9 due to community language, which was his choice.

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Original poster
barbosska · 04/04/2020 21:24

OddBoots

I suppose, this depends on a student. If someone takes History for A level after doing GCSE in year 9, most likely that student is interested in the subject outside of the school anyway, so he/she should be fine. I do not know if GCSE and A level teaches the same curriculum, so cannot comment if one has to remember the material from Y 9.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 04/04/2020 21:23

They don’t need a full extra academic year. They’ve been taught the GCSE, right? So they can go into the next year and do the new GCSEs as planned. They can also stretch this teaching out with the extra time they’ve now got due to exams being cancelled, giving them extra time on the side to revise (not teach, because it’s already been taught) the GCSEs that they’ve already completed but not sat.

Original poster
barbosska · 04/04/2020 21:21

Princessdebthe1st

they do English, Match and Science in Y9, 10 and 11.
If they do , for example, History GCSE in Y9, then they do not do it in Y10-11, but can take it for A level.

OP posts:
Original poster
barbosska · 04/04/2020 21:17

noblegiraffe

From now to the end of June is two months, given Easter break. Two months is not a full academic year to catch up on 2 years months of tuition. Even if they continue through July and August this gives 4 months vs 9 of academic year

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Crookshanksthecat · 04/04/2020 21:15

I'm afraid I think it's the school that are disadvantaging the children here because they've tried to play the system for better results.

I still don't understand how a student could continue a subject at Alevel having taken the GCSE in year 9 and then not studied it for 2 years. Even year 10 and had a year off. This is a massive disadvantage to the student. And if they only follow Alevels of subjects they took in year 11 then surely they'd have to know this at the beginning of year 9 or 10 which is far too early to be making those kind of decisions.

I have to say I'm quite baffled why any school would follow this system other than trying to skew the results in their favour, prioritising results over education.

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