Long term effect of coronavirus crisis on private school sector

On Local Education Authorities (LEAs) I would point out that they don't exist any more - academy chains and devolved budgets, local management of schools etc gradually stripped things away and then the government a few years ago decided that a lot of what was left should be separated from councils. What's left in council hands is admissions (even though they don't have the teeth or power to push academy schools and others that are quite separate from the local authority to accept anyone they don't want to), special educational needs and other things which other organisations don't see an easy way to make money out of.

And like all the schools, they were squeezed before the coronavirus crisis. I'm a parent governor at the primary where both my sons went - DS2 would be just finishing year 6 there and DS1 is at secondary already. The school was having to make really terrible decisions about redundancies - basically almost anyone other than class teachers is vulnerable and we are struggling to fill places because there are less children coming up to primary age here than there were a few years ago. I only know of one oversubscribed primary and it's near the nicest private housing in the area and where there is higher gentrification and owner-occupation.

What's left of pared back local authorities don't have the money to bail out private schools. They're struggling to support the remaining community schools and have been forced to semi-privatise schools improvement, governor services etc. And now there is the crisis, and there are many things which should be higher up the list.

This is just my personal experience but my DC's prep does reasonably well academically - probably not much better than the state when you consider you have an above average cohort. People pay for the family atmosphere and the extras though. Forest school, lots of fields to play in, more sport, more drama, more music. The small class sizes don't just mean more attention from the teacher but more of a sense of being part of a community. The kids know each other - even in different years, all kids have a chance to shine and are known for something (sport, academics, some interesting hobby etc) and feel safe and happy at school. There's just no way you could recreate that level of attention in a class of 30.

I did look at some indies though where you wonder why on earth parents were paying. One I looked at the primary kids weren't allowed to run in the playground! The teaching methods were clearly outdated - no SEN provision at all. All it had going for it as far as I could see was an impressive looking building and a cute uniform.

There is always a tendency on MN education boards for people to assume that any remark is a generalisation. As Bubbles said, 'my child's private school is doing a great job in the current situation and I'm very happy to pay the fees' is not intended to translate into 'all private schools are great'. FWIW I wouldn't send my child to the private school down the road even if it were free, regardless of its history, reputation and status, because I don't like its ethos. Same as I wouldn't send him to one of the best performing state school in the area because it has a very heavy-handed church ethos. There are things we can all like and dislike about different state and private schools, even those with great reputations. And even though it is generally true that staffing resources are better in private schools, that's irrelevant if the teachers aren't great or if the school has furloughed most of them to save money (as has happened in some schools, I've read on here). Similarly, among friends with children in state schools, some are very happy with their current provision, others are very unhappy.

The best resource is usually the teachers. From my personal experience there are good and bad in both, though teachers are better trained in state. I expect the best resource at the moment is a strong available IT department!

Who is saying private schools are great? I know from personal experience that isn’t the case. So who is blindly saying this? It’s not unreasonable to say that private schools have greater teaching resources though, because they obviously do. That’s not to say they are better!

Hmm my Dds school is above average. Not in the top ten state schools in the county. It’s better than my public school but equal academically to my small independent at primary.

I paid. Two different private schools, one a highly sought after waiting list type of school, some (certainly not all) children were not nice to the point DD was miserable and we home educated for a while to take away the horribleness of it. State school, DD has a lovely group of friends and not one in her class has been unkind in the ways the private school children were. However sector aside there is no innoculation against unkind children.

Please can we stop with the ‘all private schools are great’ rhetoric. Yes some are amazing, some are not good. This is the same for state schools too.

Don’t take the word “ruffians” seriously. You will find many DC have very protective parents and they want small classes so DC are not overlooked. However they do want their DC to mix with whom they consider to be nice children. So they pay.

I think the schools most likely to fold are the ones with too many parents who scrape the fees together. As I said above. Parents might continue to pay for what they think is exclusive and of course their views of what they want might not accord with yours.

I did send DD to a private nursery attached to a private school. It was fairly obvious the school was not great. The nursery was superb. In DDs nursery group of 34, 4 made it to y6. Its still open and people still pay for DC to go there. No, it’s not as good as many local state schools. Yes, it has a lot of parents sailing close to the wind financially. So we shall see. But don’t underestimate the desire for some people to have their DC separated from the state school ruffians and dig really deep to do that. They really don’t all look at educational value.

Judging by the length and frequency of the Oxbridge threads on Higher Education, they definitely do! I guess you haven’t read any of them!

I’m sure MN DC go to the best state schools in the uk.

Lol. My dc's school is currently Ofsted-rated as 'Inadequate'. At least some of that rating is definitely justified (though other parts are not), but dc is still being provided with music lessons (online) via the school, plus a reasonable range of other online learning.

It will be interesting to see how the private school viability situation plays out, since the schools most likely to fold are those which are not really providing anything over and above what is available in the state system (and sometimes considerably less) apart from an aura of exclusivity. Parents who have shelled out six-figure sums for their child's education are understandably inclined towards confirmation bias when assessing the benefits to their child of this expenditure, but when the rubber really hits the road, as in the coronavirus crisis, I assume it will become clear which schools are actually running on empty.

No. But I wasn’t really looking at what’s on offer in a tiny minority of schools known to posters. I thought we were talking about take up of “lessons” by DC overall. The stats that were presented upthread and why that might be the case. I’m sure MN DC go to the best state schools in the uk. There is no doubt that private schools have more generous staffing. There is no doubt that some state schools are going above and beyond. There is no doubt that some DC are prepping for A levels diligently and there is no doubt some are saying “no”. I can think of a few saying “no” right now and parents have given up. From the stats they might be the majority but obviously not on MN.

Bubbles have you had any children in state education currently? You may be surprised on what they are offering online (in my Dds state secondary school the same as andantino). Except for my Year 11 who has currently done nothing this week except read novels until the bridging A Level work turns up on Monday .
Orchestra and various choirs still on and linked up online. All the state primaries have linked up to set challenges etc and provide a full online service.

The school in Yeovil had been in financial difficulties for quite some time and may not have made it anyway. Yeovil is never going to be an easy catchment for an independent school.

I'm sure that's true, but that will also be true of lots of other schools, and the COVID situation will be the straw that finally pushes them over the edge, as it were.

The school in Yeovil had been in financial difficulties for quite some time and may not have made it anyway. Yeovil is never going to be an easy catchment for an independent school.

I absolutely wasn't denigrating what state schools are offering, just saying that I definitely feel like I'm getting value for my fees at the moment. And yes, I completely agree that staffing ratios are a major reason why this level of 'service' is possible (secondary in our case, and roughly 20 in a class rather than the 30-34 which seems more typical locally). Which as well as affecting workload, must also make live teaching that bit more manageable. Plus I think the teachers generally have lighter teaching timetables, so more free periods for planning and prep. And as well as caring about their kids, just as state school teachers do, I'm sure they are also well aware that their jobs ultimately depend on keeping the parents happy.

I think private schools do mostly have exactly what you say, PettsWoodParadise and no private school we have used has had 24 in a class. 18 max. So 2 teachers to 36 and sometimes 2 teachers to 30. That’s far more standard in private primary schools. They also tend to have floating specialist teachers with no class responsibility. So staffing is pretty generous and that is, of course, what people pay for. In the very best preps, teachers are qualified. Maybe in ones pushing 24 into a class they have different standards? I know in average little private primary schools you don’t get teachers who are necessarily qualified but in the best schools you do. Generally private school parents will be expecting something for their £ thousands right now. State parents will also be expecting something but are not in a position to do anything about it if they don’t get it.

No state schools don’t have a ‘business relationship’ with their pupils but they often have one of integrity, responsibility and care. I am saying this having had a child in both private and state. Private school 24 in a class, state 27, not much difference. Teaching quality better in state. Excellent communication in this present crisis from state teachers and going above and beyond their roles.

Private schools have more teachers per 30 pupils than state schools, specialist teachers and a very strong reason to support their DC. The parents might pull the pupils out if they don’t think they are getting enough for their money. State schools don’t have this business relationship with DC. More private parents are invested financially in the outcomes for their DC and are perhaps expecting more and getting more. But.... there are more staff to deliver it. It’s not 1:30 as in state primary schools.

That's really sad to read. To be honest, as the weeks go by, I'm becoming more convinced that the fees are worth paying, not less. DS is having full days of timetabled lessons (a mix of live and not live), plus daily tutor support, which means that I can work full days from home without needing to give him any input (except making lunch ). In addition, he's continuing to have live music lessons, plus the school has adapted a lot of its extra curricular clubs (and added new ones) so that he's keeping himself busy 'after school' as well, and he's also still getting the softer side of his relationship with his teachers (the chat and the banter), which is one of the things he loves so much about school. I've heard lots of snippy comments about private schools just doing this sort of thing to 'justify their fees' - but surely justifying their fees is what they're doing all the time anyway?

And another couple www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/amanda-barclays-special-needs-school-closes-due-to-pandemic-frederick-

www.hawleyhurst.co.uk/administration-faq

It’s started:

www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/park-school-yeovil-placed-administration-4064507

I note that the Sutton Trust compared the online (live or recorded teaching sessions, not just setting work) between private and state schools. They found inequality between the two.

The polling found over half of students in independent primaries (51%) and secondaries (57%) take part in online lessons every day. This is two and half times as often as their state school contemporaries (19% and 22%).

As I said up thread, this could turn out to be a selling point for independent schools who can say they're able to provide schooling remotely.

I think that day schools are likely to do better overall, not just in London. DD's day school in the SW added one bulge Yr7 class last year and two this, so they can probably withstand quite a few families withdrawing.

We will stay, her fees are paid for by an inheritance, thank heavens.

In the last recession, there were two big changes

a) big drop in numbers applying or pre-prep (ascribed to parents seeking to reduce he number of years they were paying, and waiting tonsee how their finances moved in these years)

b) drop in numbers of home students boarding. This led to more boarding schools actively seeking to recruit international students. That might be a less available option this time. Increasing the number of day places (or flexiboarding places, with the hope that there be a creeping return to full/er boarding over time) could also be an opruin, but very dependent on whether there are enough local parents interested in a private school place.

Which leads to an important third point, which was very evident in London last time. Increased demand for day school,places. Londoners who might otherwise have looked to boarding, were unsure of future income decided to go for day schools (lower bills). It became very, very competitive, even more so than usual. So I thi kmthere couid be quite a difference between London and most of the rest of UK.