Long term effect of coronavirus crisis on private school sector

I think there are Indies that are doing a good job and there are states that are doing a good job. Similarly there are both that are doing a terrible job. I really think when it comes to it it's the luck of the draw. Our friends prep has been delivering horrible online lessons that have been all over the place and no organisation behind them. Kids getting in trouble for being late to online tutor.
Our state secondary has sent DD a coloured timetable, she gets all the work set on Monday and has links and blank emails she can send to teachers in case she's stuck.
We have had a phone call twice a week as well as zoom assembly. They've got her a free tutor through the Coronavirus scheme. No online lessons but the lessons prepared on Google classroom have been amazing and some pre recorded by the teacher. No crazy amounts either, she has about 2hrs of work a day. All school laptops have been handed out to students as well as all the instruments the school had. There was even a boy who had a digital piano delivered by a teacher. They've had all sorts of competitions to get the kids involved and have been emailing Amazon vouchers to the winners. We really couldn't be more happy with it.

The other state sec school down the road has been able to provide barely anything as they have really old ICT systems that haven't been able to handle the traffic.
It seems like it's really the luck of the draw. Whether that be you going to a new school that has the ICT they need or the family that will make you do the work even if the school doesn't provide it.

I maintain there is value in independent schools, not all but the good ones. My DD has been given 2 worksheets a day from her state school (both are pulled from free internet resources), with the expectation I address any learning and mark (whilst working full time), zero support from the school, no online lessons etc. If I compare this to the online lessons my brother is delivering as a teacher in an independent school I can't help feel that indie is a big advantage.. some state schools may well be providing good support however this isn't across the board by any stretch.

Indie is a huge cost but what's the cost of not educating your child? I wish it weren't the case but I couldn't be more unsuitable to teach DD myself.

The bigger question is really can they survive.. few indies have fat balance sheets so money will run dry, particularly if international students don't return. I suspect many will fold or maybe merge / convert into state.

Obviously the schools cannot baby sit these DC when they don’t attend. That’s why the gap will grow and I agree the schools cannot close it. It’s very disheartening for all concerned.

Everyone on the programme was very worried about the attainment gap widening significantly.

This is absolutely a concern, but it's not necessarily something that even the best schools would be able to address.

I work with disadvantaged young people in a professional capacity - I don't work for an education provider but I do work closely with them. Some of the young people are failing to engage in education at all at the moment, which is deeply concerning, but the reasons for this are very complex. It is not for want of trying on the part of schools and colleges in these cases, as they're actually doing a great job.

Yes. Agreeing with you suki. The private sector won’t be bailed out.

They might have to spend on the state sector though if lots more places are needed.

I always find it odd that people pay fees without evaluation of a school. If the state is better, why pay £5000 fees each term in the first place? It doesn’t guarantee nice children that’s for sure. It should mean you get a lot of things which are better than state though. At my DDs old senior school, day fees are £7200 a term for y7-8 rising to £8400 a term for 6th form. So £5000 a term is maybe not enough to provide what’s needed for excellence.

I just started a thread on the Coronavirus board about Yr10 GCSEs. Maybe I should move it. However having moved dd from an independent in Oct. due to bullying, we had to wait nearly three months to get a place in an excellent state school. I turned down another that had space but was ‘inadequate’. I have to say I am so relieved now, because our business may not survive this and the very thought of paying out £5,000 term fees would be sickening, or having to move her, if she had been happy there. As it is, I’m quietly relieved (although at the time it was hell).

There are parents at her old school, who I know have given notice, one parent with two children, and two others with a child each. These are just in the few that I am still in contact with.

State schools are not going to cope and I know the one parent with two, is considering the ‘inadequate’ school, as she hasn’t any other option, heartbreaking for her children to have to change when they are so happy. However, a school that is improving often gets the best resources and input going forward.

Having seen both sides, I am so impressed at the state system, from the pastoral support, to the teaching. The old school was stuffy by comparison and facilities lacking. The online teaching has been way ahead of the independent.

I think we need to consider the children in all this, not only their exams next year, but the impact on them maybe having to move and change schools, so if the government could support the independent sector to get through it, they should, because there sure aren’t going to be spaces in the state system, if our experience is anything to go by.

I can see that schools are worried about remaining viable. I imagine some don’t want to reduce fees by too much or they simply won’t survive and want to know the market view of reductions. It’s not right that they do this but I guess it’s desperation. If school A offers 50% discount but if school B do does the same its bankrupt, and fears too many of its parents cannot afford full fees when things get back to normal, school B might try and coerce school A to reduce fees by a lesser amount. I can see it’s tempting.

I also think there are some private schools that carry quite a lot of bad debt and are barely viable anyway. One with 30 in a class might make me wonder about finances.

And I now see in the papers that private schools have been warned over colluding to fix fees and discounts during the pandemic.

The fee structure would indicate higher numbers in the classes. You can’t get something for nothing. I know fees are not “nothing” but if they charge lower fees their business model is to get parents with less spare money who are possibly first time buyers and are not necessarily looking at the whole breadth of education on offer.

My friend teaches in a "cheap" private school (probably the wrong term, but the fees are around half compared to other private schools in town). It went from single-sex to co-ed during the last recession, and has combined classes since. She's convinced covid will be the end of it.

It does have much better sports and performing arts facilities than any state schools I know, and it's more religious than local church schools. But in terms of academics, I'm not sure it's different from a good state school. Classes of up to 30 students, so having many of the same online teaching struggles as state schools. They're only doing video lessons with sixth formers.

I wouldn't be surprised if some parents pulled their children out to put them in state schools (as more and more have been doing the last few years) and others move their children to more expensive private schools with smaller class sizes and better online teaching - especially if it looks like schools may go online again in the future.

Oh, I completely agree with you on that Bubbles.

I have no doubt the parents of the privately educated DC are at least trying though. Of course the parents of the children with greater need will feel more disrupted but the privately educated with engaged parents are more likely to catch up. Those in disadvantaged areas in state schools are less likely to catch up. They go to school being behind in the first place.

Absolutely, and that gap isn't just about wealth, either. At my son's school, the kids are pretty much universally academically able and self motivated almost by definition, plus the school puts a huge emphasis right from the start on the kids taking responsibility for managing their own learning, homework, communication with staff etc - which they can do because of the profile of their learners. Which means that remote learning is not only working very well, but also requires minimal parental involvement. By comparison, I have friends at another local independent school which is very good, but is of the smaller and more nurturing variety, and attracts a lot of children who have mild SEN or just need a lot of hand-holding and support. Parents there report that online learning isn't working very well at all, as the kind of support the children normally get in lessons just isn't replicable in a remote environment, so they don't feel that their children are getting a very effective education at the moment. And these are still 'privileged' kids, so that's before you add in the problems of school resources, home technology resources and parental disengagement that are widening the gap much more for lots of learners.

The Sutton Trust are providing data on this. There are reports that for some DC, the PP money spent on them will count for nothing. How to get DC back to learning efficiently and effectively is now a huge challenge.

I agree completely @BubblesBuddy

We know that there is a spike in domestic abuse but we aren't talking about the kids at home in dire circumstances, whose chance of escape is zero. Then in addition to the abusive situations, there are millions of kids who just aren't accessing education right now for a multitude of reasons: parental disinterest, lack of computers or what not.

MN so isn't the barometer of the country's children. If you read here, every state school teacher is doing zoom lessons online, from aged 5 to 18, and every child is talking daily to a teacher. Schools and/or councils are sending out hot meals to vulnerable kids.

Maybe some are doing the above but I suspect it's far from the norm.

Well done Newsnight.

Well Newsnight did. The Head of Ofsted took part in the debate as well as Katherine Birbalsingh (if I’ve spelt that correctly) and Justine Greening. I think they certainly recognised the problem. The big debate is how DC are going to catch up because the mountain is getting steeper all the time. MN isn’t full of struggling families with no space and one computer (if that) for the whole family. There isn’t much recognition on here that so many DC are not doing the work and indeed that some schools are not following up on the vulnerable DC at all. I know some are but it’s patchy. Everyone on the programme was very worried about the attainment gap widening significantly.

@BubblesBuddy that actually makes me very sad.
Poor children. We are failing them and no-one seems to care.

Newsnight has just published the homework return figures from DC to schools. It’s half the rate in state schools when compared to private schools. From vulnerable groups it’s 7%.

It's not just an implication, @AlexaShutUp.

According to the Sutton Trust, there is a significant difference between state (21%) and private (57%) offering online learning, which is defined as online live or pre-recorded sessions by the teacher delivered to the children.

In either sector, you are fortunate if your children are in the group that are having online teaching. If you're in a state school, it is not the norm according to the Sutton Trust and it is only barely the norm even in private schools.

I wonder if they might be more attractive in the short-term. Smaller class sizes, smaller schools, easier to social distance.

I think concern was expressed earlier on the thread that some DC simply are not doing what is offered. They have disengaged. It’s difficult for some parents to get DC to do anything. If turns out my DNs are in this category. Simply refusing to engage. So what’s on offer makes no difference to them and we already know around 80% of vulnerable DC are not attending when they could. If that is PP children then my DNs are in that category. I do suspect the parents of privately educated DC might crack the whip a bit more.

No LA will bail out a private school but if a school is needed in that area it’s not a bad idea to take it over. If there isn’t a need, then it has to be left to close but then the DC going there might struggle to find other schools.

I'm really surprised by the implication that state schools are generally leaving students to get on with stuff by themselves. This hasn't been our experience. Year 10 dd is doing video lessons online, asking questions via an internet forum and getting individualized feedback on work which she submits. She is also continuing to do groupwork with her peers via the internet for some subjects. The school is also using zoom to do live lessons for some of the younger kids. I understand that they have taken steps to ensure that disadvantaged children have appropriate access to the internet. The school has also been proactive about promoting good mental health, sharing lots of resources and ideas to help families and offering support where required.

My nephew's state secondary school is also doing classes via zoom. My primary age goddaughter is getting regular telephone calls from her class teacher to check welfare, progress etc. The primary school where I'm a governor is doing similar, and is offering a range of video classes/self-guided materials for children to be getting on with, with easy access to teacher support if the children need help. They are taking particular care to ensure that they are checking on the welfare of more vulnerable children, as this is obviously a concern.

The kids we know at private schools all seem to be proceeding with their education in a broadly similar manner. To be honest, I think it's really hard in the current circumstances for private schools to offer much added value, as we are all bound by the same lockdown restrictions. Consequently, if this goes on for much longer, it wouldn't be at all surprising if parents started to question what they were actually paying for, and some private schools may struggle to survive as a result.