Please or to access all these features

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Appealing on anxiety grounds - advice please!

36 replies

Pebblecat33 · 08/03/2020 11:05

My daughter has just missed out on her first choice secondary school. The second choice is also a great school so the issue isn’t the school itself. The issue is that all of her close friends and even her wider circle have all been placed at the preferred school and she is devastated as she feels completely cut off.

My daughter has been having anxiety type issues for the last year. We have been mostly managing these at home and thought she was getting better but this has been a massive set back. She has been referred for tests and counselling by our GP and is seeing a counsellor at school.

We are just getting our heads around the appeals process and whether or not we even stand a chance. Any advice please?

Some facts -

We are currently 8th on the waiting list
Oversubscription is distance only, we are 4.3metres outside (!)
The late submission deadline is Friday 13th March, this could move us up or down the list
We live in the north-west corner of a housing estate, in the north-west corner of a community, in the north-west corner of the town! The school in question is more or less centrally located so the catchment area has geographically cut us off from most of the community. North and west of us is pretty much fields and farms.

Any hope?

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
SadRach76 · 05/04/2023 09:50

@Pebblecat33 realise this is an old thread but I’m appealing on similar grounds just wondered what happened with your hearing?
thanks

cabbageking · 10/03/2020 14:23

The panel uses the evidence, common sense and the rules about appeals to come to a decision. Each panel member may have a view about the appeal which is discussed in private and a decision given.

Transport tends to be outside their remit except where a serious disability/ permanent illness of child or parent meant the nearest school or specific school was an absolute necessity

My thoughts would be if she has an issue walking to school then a taxi, other arrangement with a parent would solve the issue.

If her medical issue is severe enough then you need to approach the Council travel to school providers who will provide transport under the 3 miles to those who qualify.

This would likely be the panels approach to 99.9% of transport issues in appeals sorry.

I would be constructing an appeal but not on any travel to school problem. Evidence her mental health and well being, herself worth, the impact of her anxiety, what help she has accessed and its impact. What is known to help her and evidence this.

That would be my thoughts

Psychologika · 10/03/2020 12:55

I'd look into getting her some CBT for her anxiety, whether you win the appeal or not, it will only get worse without adequate treatment (and school counselling is unlikely to be adequate).

Baaaahhhhh · 10/03/2020 12:51

As a parent of a child with very bad anxiety, social, and general, I really do empathise. DD has had counselling for four years now, privately, and it has helped, but she will always have anxiety, the counselling just helps you deal with it.

For appeals grounds, I don't think your DD is unusual, lots and lots of DC's seem to have heightened anxiety these days. So many are under counsellors it is like an epidemic. |So not sure whether this will be taken into account, but worth a try in any event.

Although she thinks she needs her friends, she really needs to be helped to cope without them, the counselling hopefully with do this. Remember, most friendships change and move in secondary school. Even if she gets in, she may not be in the same class, or the same sets. She may find they move on, find other friends, and this is also a big deal, a huge deal in fact, if you are relying on a group of friends, if that happens she may be really thrown off course.

This sounds all very negative I know. But, honestly, just in case the worst happens, try to get her all the help you can, pay if you are able, and get her to be more resilient. It's really hard, and very upsetting for parents, you will never stop worrying about them, but they do learn to cope eventually, and hopefully move on healthier and happier.

Pebblecat33 · 10/03/2020 12:48

She actually doesn’t avoid the sources of anxiety, she can’t to be honest as there are so many things that trigger it it would be impossible. Her friends help her manage it, sounds odd given her age I know. But they distract her, keep an eye on her, tell us stuff via their parents which is invaluable as she doesn’t verbalise it, etc. She manages the issues that make her anxious well when they are around.

The big trigger last year turned out to be a teacher who she perceived as bullying her, she doesn’t have any issues with any of her classmates. It took us months to get that out of her, her friends had raised concerns but she denied it all. We now know better about how she deals with this stuff (it doesn’t deal) so have now know how to manage this if it happens again.

She is seeing a counsellor in school, etc. But she still confides in her friends and that is part of her coping mechanism. I know a lot of people might struggle to understand that, it’s actually quite lovely but has taken a long time to develop. Even her current teacher has commented on how special their bond is Smile

OP posts:
bluejelly · 10/03/2020 12:22

I'm so sorry your DD has anxiety. Arguably avoiding sources of anxiety isn't helpful. The anxiety will transfer to something else. Better to treat the anxiety than just avoid anything that could trigger it.

mambanumber5 · 10/03/2020 12:13

The only thing op, are you sure that her anxiety isn't based on something going on at school and a fresh start might be the very best thing for her? My dd is like a different child since starting secondary - all her old friends went to a different school.

mambanumber5 · 10/03/2020 12:10

I would pay for a private professional to meet with her, discuss the situation with her, assess her and write a report. Plus gp stuff and current school. Good luck.

Pebblecat33 · 10/03/2020 12:07

Wow that’s low!

So I haven’t got actual figures For the LA last year but I know last year (2019) the School PAN was 310 for preferred school and the number post appeals was 323. It was a high birth year though and a lot of kids got placed over the other side of the LA (which is over the other side of the river that splits the area in half)

As far as the LA goes I managed to find some data for the years before (2017/2018 admissions) The year before (2018) there were 71appeals and 46 were upheld across the LA, and the year before that (2017) there were 13 out of 56. It’s all over the place but I suppose it shows they do accept some, of course we don’t know what they were based on!

I’m probably clutching at straws. I know this is a long shot, but we’ve got nothing to lose by trying

OP posts:
Falcor40 · 10/03/2020 10:41

We had 380 appeals here in my county. 4 were won. All based on children with disabilities. One was in a wheelchair for example.

It's really really hard to win an appeal. Due to the fact that so many people do appeal and if more won. They have to let others win

This is why the percentage of winning an appeal is almost zero. Sad I know. If your dr has no real letters on her file about her anxiety. I realise he does have some. But they were related to cardiac. Which you've not cancelled. It could be seen that because you didn't attend the appointment. That you might be seen as not trying to help. If you get what I'm saying

Maybe it would be better if you could take her and get them to put in writing that it isn't cardiac. And it might be anxiety related.

Then you could start with the gp etc.

Pebblecat33 · 10/03/2020 09:48

Sorry I didn’t want to sound ungrateful. I appreciate everyone’s advice on here honestly I do.

This whole thing is just all consuming at the moment. I just hope that the late admissions review on Friday falls in our favour!

OP posts:
PanelChair · 10/03/2020 09:41

You’ve explained it well. I hope I’ve explained how appeals work and what panels can and can’t consider, as they are working within the parameters of the admission and appeals codes, so that you can frame your appeal in the most effective way. I wish you luck.

Pebblecat33 · 10/03/2020 09:11

Isn't that what I said? I feel I need to explain further...

Our appeal is primarily based on her anxiety. This is driven by all sorts of things, roads, heights, she worries about her grandparents, she worries about dropping a few marks on a test. She’s worried about making friends as she struggles to do this on her own, but when her friends are around she finds it easier as they give her confidence. She worries about what other people think about her. When she worries she doesn’t sleep, I find her in tears first thing in the morning, or late at night, she loses interest in everything, she gets panicky and shaky, says that her heart is beating too fast, etc.

She tells me and she’s told the counsellor at school that she doesn’t trust anyone except a few friends and her family. I have no idea where this has come from.

Last summer she became so withdrawn
, pale, had chest pains, that the GP referred her to a cardiologist. She denied that she was worried or stressed about anything, dispute her friends telling us about things that had happened at school. When we asked her about the things they had raised she denied everything and so we went for a medical diagnosis. Over the few weeks/months after that she started to recover and then we discovered the truth. She wouldn’t tell us at the time as she was as scared of being in trouble.

The whole thing scared us to be honest, we’ve done a lot of work with her since on the importance of opening up and not internalising her stresses. She still does though, and we rely on the reports her friends give to their parents, who report to us to ensure that we don’t have a similar situation again.

I’m worried about losing the link, as well as how she will cope day to day, yes eventually she will make friends but she hat damage is this all going to do to her in the meantime?

OP posts:
PanelChair · 10/03/2020 09:07

Appeal panels do care about a great many things, but they have to work within the terms of the school admission and appeals codes. They have to balance the interests of the child against the interests of the children already at the school.

You can certainly mention that part of your child’s anxiety is that she needs to be with her friends on the journey to school as well as during the school day. But as LIZS says, logistics of getting children to school - especially getting two children to two schools - don’t carry weight at appeal and the panel would expect you to use (say) a breakfast club if it came to it.

LIZS · 10/03/2020 08:46

If you felt you needed to do that you would have to make alternative arrangements for your ds. Be that breakfast club, dropping at friend to take him, or a childminder. Unfortunately logistics are unlikely to be enough on their own.

Pebblecat33 · 10/03/2020 07:54

How exactly do I accompany my daughter to school when I have to get her younger brother to school at the same time on the opposite direction?

As I said it’s quite evident that appeals panels don't give two hoots about children’s safety on their route to school. We will mention it as it is a concern but it won’t be the main basis of our appeal.

Just to clarify further. We are not appealing out of snobbery or wanting to get our child into the best school in the area. The preferred and allocated school are both rated outstanding, both have excellent process and systems in place to deal with transitions from primary to secondary, both are oversubscribed. Distance wise, the allocated is actually 5 minutes closer (walking) than the preferred!

This is all about her anxiety and her inability to cope without her friends, neither of which are recent developments.

As anyone got any advice about how best to get this across?

OP posts:
MyDcAreMarvel · 09/03/2020 21:49

Unless there’s clear evidence that the child cannot do it, the panel will expect that any Y7 child will be travelling to school independently, as the vast majority do.
@PanelChair yes I know, however if the op says her daughter cannot travel independently for anxiety reasons then it will be her not her dd’s friends that will be expected to accompany her.

admission · 09/03/2020 20:45

Whilst others have focused on the obvious things that are around what is different about the school from others I think you also need to do a bit of checking of the distance from school to your home. As a "as crow flies" distance the ability to measure to a very high level of accuracy (certainly less than 1 metre) cannot be effectively challenged. However given you are only apparently 4.3 metres outside the last offered place, it is worth checking on one of the sites on the internet that can do these measurements that the distance quoted does seem reasonable. If so then forget that for the appeal.
The other thing to check is what the school admission criteria says about how the distance is measured. Most will say that it is from the "seed point" on the school building to the "seed point" on your home, which cannot be challenged, but if it says something else, especially at the school end, that might bear further investigation. I have certainly sat on panels where there has been statements like "to the gate on the school" when there has been more than one gate of the school. Just worth a check.

PanelChair · 08/03/2020 22:52

MyDCAreMarvel - Unless there’s clear evidence that the child cannot do it, the panel will expect that any Y7 child will be travelling to school independently, as the vast majority do.

PanelChair · 08/03/2020 22:49

In that case, yes, you can roll it up in the point about needing to be with her friends because of the issues around anxiety and confidence, which brings you back to the need for supporting evidence from health care professionals.

MyDcAreMarvel · 08/03/2020 22:49

There is no argument for being safer with her friends as she would be safe if you took her to school. The fact that you may work would not be seen as a valid reason why you couldn’t accompany her.

Pebblecat33 · 08/03/2020 22:47

There is no medical criteria on the admission policy in our area, most schools are simply the standard looked after criteria, followed by distance.

OP posts:
Pebblecat33 · 08/03/2020 22:45

Actually that wasn’t what I was saying, sorry for any misunderstanding.

My point is that walking to school with a group of children she knows is much safer than being on our own. The area she’ll be walking through will be of the same danger level no matter which school she goes to so this isn’t an argument against the school it’s an argument for being with her friends

OP posts:
PanelChair · 08/03/2020 22:02

Yes, if the school has an admissions category for social and medical need (and not all schools do) it needs to be applied for at the time. Supporting evidence would be needed, in which medical professionals stated that in their opinion the child needs to attend this particular school. But parents can still use the appeal to highlight those needs as part of the picture of why the child will be disadvantaged if they don’t attend the school. In some appeals I’ve chaired, the LEA has agreed to take the evidence of medical/social need back to the MedSoc panel, who will decide whether the child should be placed in that category. If they do, the child will be placed in the (in our LEA) higher category on the waiting list, so even if they don’t win the appeal they still have a better chance of getting a place via the waiting list.

cabbageking · 08/03/2020 21:49

Is there a medical criterion in the admissions policy?

You need the Doctor to specify the problem, it's effects, name the school and why. This should have been included originally if it applied and fell within the criterion and was such a serious issue.

Swipe left for the next trending thread