Indie vs “super state”

We know people who have been very happy with More House as a less academic/more nurturing alternative to the standard academic arms race that can exist in central London's independent sector.

Often people seem to judge schools by results without fully factoring in how selective the intake is. School should be judged in part by what they do for each pupil.

No, just live nearby.

Obviously the top set is more than just the language places, and indeed the language test seems more of a logic test than a linguistics test, but I have known people who have been disappointed to discover that there is quite a range of ability in some of the other sets. A wider range than you would find in somewhere where the whole intake is selective like G&L.

I wonder also whether GCH sixth form is being impacted by the well regarded and nearby Harris Westminster and Kings Maths School Sixth Forms. I think now these would be preferred by local parents, especially those whose DC (GCH is mixed at sixth form) are considering Oxbridge or similar and especially maths/sciences.

For a moment I thought you were referring to More House, the rather posh RC private girls school.

For years we used a bus which was full of kids commuting to Harris Battersea and they were lovely. A bit rowdy at times but no more than you might expect. Not so for the GCH girls who seem to have no idea of how they should behave whilst in school uniform.

More seriously though I understand that the school can be very different depending on which set you are in. Lower sets can have discipline problems. Fine if you get in through the language test, but more tricky if you enter through other criteria.

The school also has problems recruiting and retaining teachers, and this can be a real issue at sixth form. There is a steady drift of middle class kids out of the school into the private sector. In particular I hear that several this year dont plan to stay on for sixth form.

Honestly, if you can afford it with too big a stretch I would go for G&L. Lovely school with both a nurturing and academic reputation, and the option of IB in sixth form, ideal for those may be applying for non UK Universities.

Solasun, I am surprised at your observation. Have you never come across the groups of GCH girls and the boys from the boys equivalent hanging out boisterously in the Victoria Station shopping centre. Or the entitled way they crowd the exits on the 507 bus from Waterloo.(Loads seem to come up from far flung bits of SE London and Kent.) More than once I have had to tell girls to offer seats to the elderly and disabled. It's as if they have no idea.

And why are they always eating on public transport? Greasy chicken and stuff.

It may sound weird, but I would judge a school by the behaviour of its pupils outside school, and I am not impressed by GCH.

Thanks Tiggermummy that is interesting - and I hope things improve for your dd1 soon.

Paribus if your dd's very keen to do triple science it might be worth asking the schools what the criteria for doing it are - some allow any student who wants to to do it, others have a limited number of places. Though things can change at any school by the time you get to Yr 10 which is a problem you can't really get round!

Also, triple science may not be essential for the career - there are sometimes mn threads when science teachers say it's harder but not impossible to do stem A levels after double science. (Though I don't know if any universities require triple GCSE - not an expert in that area!)

@paribus

In lower school they have 3 science labs.
But some of yr 9 classes are in Andrew building from yr 10 all classes & sixth form based in upper building. Separate labs there.

@paribus From my DD1 there are some that do triple science.

I think you have swallowed a tabloid-newspaper's account of school charitable status. Most independent schools were established as charities long before such things as business rates existed, with the charitable purpose of creating a suitable education at cost-price for those poor children whose parents couldn't afford a permanent live-in private tutor. This was also long before state schools generally existed (and yes there were whole strata of other children who were lucky if they were taught to read - it is good that society has moved on). If a school has charitable status it most certainly is run as not-for-profit - there are no owners or shareholders to receive dividends, there is nowhere for any surplus to go except being spent within the school's activities for the benefit of the pupils directly or indirectly. They are regulated by the charities commission and have to submit their accounts annually - any attempt to divert money away from the charitable purpose of the school would be embezzlement, and a criminal offence. Income over number of pupils may be a quite blunt instrument but it is no less or more valid for one kind of school than another - you can't accept it as a measure for state schools and not for independents. How would you differentiate between money that is "spent per student" and money that isn't? What does any school spend money on that isn't really being spent on the school?

Subjects offered at A level by the indy we are looking at, which aren't offered at A level by the excellent state alternative, are Classical Civilisation, Computing, Creative Writing, Dance, Design & Technology as well as the 4 other languages mentioned above.

AlissKezamMoivit

If fees were, say, 50% higher than the running costs of a state school, I would agree with you. But with average independent school fees at three times the running costs of a state school, you start to get suspicious.

@hairquestions2019
DD1 has ADD, anxiety and major self doubt issues, she has "weird behaviours" - her words as coping methods which can put others off and caused a lot of bullying in primary.
She has always struggled to make friends of her peer group, older and younger not so much.
She has a group of 3-4 friends in her class, she is friendly with most of the rest of the class and 1-2 she positively avoids - but I think you can get that in any class.
She knows others in other classes and across the years as she used to be a girl chorister at Southwark Cathedral and about half of the older choristers go to GCH.
GCH knows that a lot of girls attending will not have any one else coming from their school, so those that do - there are 3 from DD2's class are likely to be in different forms - they do a lot in those first weeks to encourage them to get to know each other.
They also do a travel club you can sign up for - they try and get a few yr 7's travelling in from the same area together with a yr8/9 to meet and do the journey together a few times over the summer and at the start of term as some will be travelling quite a way on their own for the first time.
There is some dividing by home location. In her first year there was one girl that was switched to a different form as she seemed to ruffle everyone's feathers and didn't make friends with anyone else in the class.
There were also about 4-5 girls that left/arrived into class all the way up until Half term - results of wait list shuffles I believe.
They don't get an ability split until year 8 and then they will have girls from other forms in their classes. - they also don't really tell them which group they are in, the girls can roughly work it out but they are not labelled group 1, 2, 3 etc.
GCH requires every girl to take one language to GCSE as they are a language college. All learn spanish then french or german.
DD1 is struggling abit at the moment and we haven't pinned down the cause of the "i hate school" statement.

DD2 classes herself as weird - when sister was tested for ADD etc, The doc decided she was just eccentric!
She worries alot about making friends, and she doesn't start friendships but she is one of those that everyone else gravitates towards as she makes everyone feel comfortable and supported around her (IFKWIM?)
She likes her own space and isn't worried about what others think of her, she doesn't see limitations in the same way as others, she is just getting a little concious of her body shape - but she is young and tall for age with the add of puberty hoping a season of American football could change her perceptions of herself. When she realises that you don't have to be stick thin or very fast to succeed in a sport.
She does see some things in a very black / white way at times. and gets herself told off for getting annoyed if people are not exact.
I would say bordering on aspergers with a few things but not all.

I think DD2 would be more confidant having less in her year, she would put her head down and work at GCH but not sure she would cope so well with the numbers.

I think many States offer French and Spanish rather than German but not a huge point! I’ll admit to bias but do think we should move away from generalisations about the State sector offering a rather bog standard (and therefore limiting) curriculum. Many do have specialisms - purely as an example, for a creative minded DD, my youngest’ school offers far broader options in its curriculum subjects than the local Indie. But this is all moving off topic!

Yep like @hairquestions2019 said - often much more languages (in our case the indy option does French, German, Spanish, Russian Latin & Greek and all pupils take at least one language to GCSE vs the State just French & German and only about a third of pupils take a language at GCSE at all) - plus another 4 subjects in their GCSE list which aren't available at the state school. At A level it's a choice of 28 subjects (indy) vs 20 (state). Obviously it's more economically viable for indies to offer a wider variety because the minimum class size they can timetable for is smaller, so it is possible to offer niche options. State schools can't easily timetable a subject that doesn't have high uptake so they have to be more restricted.

@Paribus State schools also spend on salaries, rent, taxes, water/electricity, etc - of course they do! That's going to be the major expenditure for any school state or private, along with books and other resources. The amount per pupil for state schools is equally their entire income divided by their number of pupils. If a school has more income in the budget to put more into salaries and attract a greater quality and experience level of staff as a result then that benefits the pupils, obviously.

Yes, absolutely the subjects do range school to school, in the State sector many have specialisms and offer additional subjects in those areas. Having studied Classical Studies, Latin and Ancient Greek at school myself, unless you want to go into some very specific specialist areas, I do think modern languages (and the average State will offer at least two in Year 7) are far far more useful! I do appreciate that Latin is the root of a number of languages but personally all I can remember is parts of a poem about being a barbarian! Any number of modern languages would have been a heck of a lot more useful!

Aliss is right op that some private schools offer a different range of subjects from state schools - for example more modern foreign languages (perhaps not an issue with GCH!), Latin, Ancient Greek, and may do further maths A level which not all state schools do etc.

On the other hand state schools may offer some subjects that not all private schools do.

Basically the subjects offered will vary from school to school, including between private schools - the above are just examples!

@Tiggermummy70, that's interesting, do you think being in a very large school (180 per year) has made it harder for dd1 to make friends then (or I might have misinterpreted your post, but sounds as though you think 84 may make it easier?). I'd always assumed large makes it easier as there's a bigger 'pool' to find your match - but maybe there's a tipping point after which it's just so big you can't 'find' people?

What would your dd like to do Paribus? One point to consider - is she religious? I don't know how big a part religion plays in GCH life, but for a non-believer that might be an issue. (I realise your family may be as you've got a place, unless it's pure distance/foreign language aptitude, but dc don't always follow on!)

I live very close to Grey Coat Hospital, and see a lot of the girls of all ages on their ways to and from school. They seem consistently well behaved and polite to each other and courteous to those around them, and well presented. As PP have said, it seems to be a good social mix of girls too. The same sadly cannot be said of kids from another school locally, who consistently drop rubbish, vandalise local houses and cars and swear a lot, accompanied by a lot of jostling.