St Paul’s or Kings College School Wimbledon

To me it smacks of a school system that places more emphasis on “brightness” meaning STEM. Rather than arts, languages and humanities.

I presume also maths is easily quantifiable at the selection stage. It’s much harder to know how an 11 year old will fare at English or History somewhere along the road.

Because they may get B's instead of A's?

So why should the top private schools not allow anyone to do A level maths when an average comp allows any Students to do it? Surely if they pride themselves on having the best teaching then they should allow anyone to do it.

I am a maths teacher in a less selective London private school. We allow level 6 and 7 gcse Grades to do A level . We have our work cut out to get them through and we add huge value to these pupils.

Parents should sometimes try to see this when choosing schools.

That percentage doing maths is normal for a selective boys school, at Tiffin about 180 take A level maths. At kings IB includes maths and 93 sit A level maths leaving about 30 odd who don't. Very bright boys tend to pursue STEM subjects at uni and they need maths.

Similarly to StPs, only the top 2 maths sets are allowed to take higher level maths for IB at Kings and there are also restrictions on who is allowed to take FM A level. This is despite nearly everyone getting an A* at GCSE.

It's very different to your average comp who would let anyone with A*/9 maths do anything they please.

On our tour of SPG, the boy showing us round said “most boys do Maths A’Level”; in fact something like 150 out of 180 in his year were doing it.

I found that astonishing and was the thing that stuck in my mind from the entire visit.

I just didn’t know what to make of that statistic, no matter how I looked it.

jeanne and cake are you saying that likes of SPS and KCS have less valued added as they are more selective at 11+?

Only 60 places at 11+ at KCS. It's been the same for a few years now. Latimer gets more applications (around 1800, I heard) than any other school in the area because it's co ed and because of the central location which attracts DCs from across London

Girls get fed up of all girls schools and often to look to change. I think it's a good move. KCS attracts girls from Wimbledon High, many of whom have been there since the age of 4. Can you imagine that! It's good for both sexes.

@AtomicRabbit - there is a huge appetite for co-ed places in London. KCS has hugely increased the number of 11+ places available but is not attracting anywhere near the number of applicants that Latymer has. Also being situated nearer to the grammar schools in Sutton and Tiffin gives them a lot of free competition at 11+. There are stories on the 11+ threads this year of candidates being offered KCS but not getting offers from less academic schools so they may be having problem attracting enough of the right applicants. Going co-ed will at least double the number of applications over night.

And I agree with Jeanne's point about value added. The teaching and value added at DD's very second tier co-ed is much better than anything DS1 experienced at Kings.

St Pauls said it was consulting on boys at 6th form (have they actually confirmed? I haven't seen it, publicly) in order to give the boys there a more rounded experience ahead of university. I am not sure why parents would encourage DDs to go there for 6th on that basis - as a support for the boys uni potential, rather than a place of genuine excellence for the girls themselves. Odd.

What benefit would there be to Kings going fully co-ed? It's not like it's a numbers thing. There are plenty of very bright boys who fill up all the spots...

Is it more a social thing?

@jeanne16 the culling and the guiding on A levels happens at ALL high performing schools. Think how they could produce those consistent results, year on year? imposible without some granular management of each boy or girl including for each decision they make. Nobody talks much about it, but when you sit down at the mums table and hear the stories..... I believe in your example for SPS, but I also know of a boy at KCS that has been "guided" to IB, despite wanting to consider Maths and Advanced Maths for A levels at some point. He was strong but not strong enough in Maths. At SPGS, a girl that was offered a place in Sixth form as long as she did not take Maths for A levels. Easier to produce those results if you are able to 1) choose the top of the cream 2) choose which subjects they will take so they do not "ruin" the school stats.

Having said that, I do believe that they all are amazing schools for the right child. The teaching at SPGS is at a level above 98% of the schools in the country, and so probably is SPS and KCS. Your child needs to be at that level intellectually however, no point pushing if the ability is not there. Which is why they cull recently perhaps? I don't know. But like you, I do question the value added sometimes.

A friend’s DS was at SPS a few years ago and was also in the Maths set 8. He got the top grade of A* for gcse as did the entire year group. However the school would not allow him to do A level maths as they said he was not strong enough. I thought this was outrageous you have to wonder what the added value of the school is.

Sunday Times league table: KCS 4th, St. Paul's 10th.
Plenty of sports facilities on site at KCS, in a nicer environment than St. Paul's.

SPS opens its new buildings and marks the end of the current rebuilding programme next week I think.

I visited both and agreed with previous poster that the buildings at StP look very tired whilst the sport facilities were much better than KCS. I did not like the location of StP which means travelling is tricky. Wimbledon is much better for public transport. Too early to say IB or A levels is better as DS is only 10 but having choices is always better.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't but I'm pretty sure that prospective parents won't be told in advance.

Before DS1 started I had swallowed the "academically rigourous" IB myth and lapped up the stories of how A levels were too easy. It was a big selling point for the school. So immediately after the deposit was paid to commit for a place and when other offers had been relinquished, I was not impressed to receive a letter from the school announcing the re-introduction of A levels alongside the IB. This had been planned for some time and I believe that prospective parents purposely weren't told earlier because it would have affected the numbers taking places. By the time DS1 got to 6th form the school was pushing the IB because it is much easier to get 7s at IB than A*s at A level.

I think I was incredibly naieve and too trusting.

13 years ago I first heard the rumour Kings would go completely co Ed. Still waiting...

@Notmynom - we are very local and that is very much the local view point. Older parents say that they made exactly the same denials about allowing girls for 6th form and then it happened.

Listen to the head. The rumours have been around for a while. Lots of girls' schools in the area, and a lack of boys. Can't see it happening.

That's interesting @cakeisalwaystheanswer. We were at a fairly recent offer holders event and the head was adamant there were no plans to allow girls to enter at any point other than 6th form in future. Why do you think otherwise?

Asking as we are still mulling our options but if there is a likelihood of KCS going full co-ed than that would rule it out for us.

I liked the head at St Paul’s but at the end of the talk he told us he’s leaving. They’re getting their first female head teacher.

Sorry, “high master”.

I visited both schools recently and thought Kings has nicer facilities. St Paul’s is a bit gloomy and there’s a lot of building work taking place - or planned anyway.

That’s interesting. Any idea when that could happen? I’m thinking ahead...

There is a general expectation that Kings will go completely co-ed, hence the enlarged 11+ entry.