St Paul’s or Kings College School Wimbledon

@Testbunny - the other odd thing you will notice with W is the number going to London unis. It's much higher than other schools.Different priorites.

Yes DS1 joined at 13+, the 11+ intake was only about 15? then. Previously at KCS for 13+ they took about 85 from the junior school and 60 from external preps so it was a good mix. But now that will be 80ish from the prep, about 45 from the new "Lower School" and 30 from external preps. I don't think that's a good mix, too many established groups and friendships.

According to StP's website, they take in about 180 to the senior school, half from the junior school the remainder from external preps. Which hasn't changed from DS's time and is a better mix for a boy joining at 13+.

The dominance of STEM at Tiffin left me cold

From their website : American universities are also proving increasingly popular, with as many as forty pupils applying successfully each year, some also gaining offers at Oxford or Cambridge. Pupils have also accepted places at universities offering leading courses in their chosen fields: for example, the London School of Economics, Imperial College, the Courtauld Institute, the Sorbonne, the Royal College of Music and the New York Film School.

cakeisslwaystheanswer. Agree with you about Westminster. I would have loved my son to go there, but we didn't apply because of the location (of course, he may not have got in). Maybe for 6th form. If you look at the leavers' destinations. Wow

They have slightly increased the (mostly state primary) 11+ intake into SPJS, but the main school still firmly starts at 13+.

SPS moving more to 11+?

Cake. So your DS joined KCS at 13+? I thought SPS is also more to 11+?

Point taken, Westminster is just different and attracts a very particular type. I looked at a few other boys schools and they are all very similar to these.

And @utility - I wasn't disappointed with Kings in that DS did extremely well academically there. He has some very strong friendships, has lots of happy memories and still attends the alumni events. But I do think that there is a lot more teaching and support at less academic schools because there needs to be. And I would choose StP's now because of the on site sports facilities, which is a very strong personal preference, and because of the larger take in at 13+ when everyone joins the senior school.

Yes Westminster do one too which is where my original information was from. It just illustrates the point I was making that it varies from school to school. At certain schools for bright boys most go on to do STEM at other schools for bright boys there is a fairly equal balance of STEM v arts/languages/humanities and at others fewer seem to do STEM than not.

And so does St Pauls. less than 30 non STEM from my rough count, higher than Tiffin but still a big STEM majority.

www.stpaulsschool.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/2018-Leavers-Destinations-Nov-2019-1.pdf

Tiffin do a very nice summary of destination by courses, attached:

www.tiffinschool.co.uk/_docs/sixthform/University%20Courses%202019.pdf

I'm not sure it's true that 'very bright boys tend to pursue STEM subjects at uni'. If you look at Westminster far more leavers go on to study Arts/Humanities subjects than STEM subjects - even allowing for them having girls in 6th form the majority of their boys are definitely not doing STEM at uni.

They are both great choices and most kids love their school and cannot imagine having gone anywhere else!

OP: Don't be too swayed by the views expressed on this thread! As has just been pointed out, it represents the views of only a few parents. It seems that there is one parent who is disappointed with KCS and wishes they had sent their son elsewhere. That is sad. But certainly not the norm for what is one of the country's top schools.

St Paul's attracts more from central London, so possibly.

Racial mix seems greater at SPS - but that is purely from looking at both schools’ sports teams - which may not be a fair example.

Only a few views from one or two parents at both. What is your feeling??

GCSE

By the way, SPS got 96.66 A*-A last year compared to 95.88% for KIngs. Nothing in it! There are both extremely academic schools. So, again, go for where you can see your DS more

Good point! OP did you apply to Westminster??

SPS and KCS are amongst the top schools in the country so I think it's arbitrary. Did you get a sense of where you could see your DS when you were visiting the schools?

Utility your comment sent me off to look at the Sunday Times table and you are quite right on their overall ranking KCS is higher. Fascinating! I would argue however that most important stat for OP to consider is GCSE results as that’s the like for like comparison - we all know the influx of girls makes the difference to KCS Alevel results. At GCSE SPS do better.

I could also gripe about your ‘nicer environment’ comment as everything is on site at SPS which it isn’t at KCS and the building programme has made a massive difference I think you may be out of date on that. But doesn’t sound like OP cares about rugby pitches to be fair.

Of course what OP really wants is a place at Westminster! Or SPGS .

I do think value add is very hard to measure in these schools - it’s not really what they are about. They take bright kids and push them to achieve their potential. I don’t think my two could have been better taught or inspired but don’t know if you could measure it as value add.

League tables are a dodgy thing of course as we know some schools game them. Looking at Brighton College when I say that!

But to disagree with PP, I don’t know anyone at SPS who has been discouraged from doing anything at alevel they want to. I have direct personal experience of boys taking an alevel in a subject they got a C in at GCSE (and ending up studying it at oxbridge) and equally of boys who aren’t great at maths doing double maths (like my own DS). They tell the boys to do what they like not worry about grades.

To be fair there is evidence that students sitting STEM subjects have the highest IQs. This is a fairly typical list:

www.accommodationforstudents.com/view_student_blog.asp?id=2410

DD is at a school which sounds similar to where Jeanne teaches and as a parent my experiences are the same. There are DCs from lower maths sets determined to sit A level maths and the extra help, time and effort the maths dept put into these students is amazing. Extra lessons are compulsory for those struggling but there is a huge amount of goodwill and encouragement from the very cheerful and positive teachers. But I'm sure they would get better results if they insisted only the top sets could sit their subject.

Value added is a very important aspect of education - but I don’t think it applies to these super academic institutions who select only the absolute smartest kids who show particular flair, it seems, for maths.

But I have a little bee in my bonnet about the push towards STEM, as though that’s the only thing of value.