Shouldnt equal education be available to everyone?

You shouldn't have more choice because you have money!

So what would be the point of working so bloody hard then if it’s not going to give you more choices? What would be the argument for paying taxes if it’s not going to give the country more choices?Thank God we don’t live in a system like that.

Here is an article from the Guardian.

I think you’ll find plenty of Guardian journalists were privately educated, and the former editor Alan Rusbridger sent his children to private school, as did columnist Polly Toynbee.

Whatever school system exists, it is impossible to offer exactly equal educational opportunities to every child. So much depends on the family. If forced into a state school which doesn't offer education to the taste of the parents, those with the resources to do so will either opt out or supplement with tutors, Latin, rowing, guided additional reading etc. etc. This argument always makes me think of the Millibands: they may have been to an ordinary comprehensive but not only was it situated in a very privileged area, when they came home, their kitchen table was effectively London's leading left wing salon. That is an educational experience which cannot be replicated for every child.

South Korea has the world’s most equitable education system. Japan and Singapore follow closely behind. However, South Korea has quite a reputation for hothousing pupils, and in my husband’s experience from working there, while they are good at passing exams, they cannot think outside of the box. They need hand holding and have no initiative as their way of learning is very rigid and prescribed. They know the what, but not the how and the why. And they don’t receive a rounded education. I would be interested to know what SEN provision is made in these countries as well.

Interestingly most of the university students who come to university in the UK from these countries are taking science subjects – engineering, medicine or medicine related subjects, because they fit well with this type of learning. I imagine that if they were faced with an essay question starting with the word “discuss” they would feel a little bemused.

Like a Scottish pp, where I live in South Yorkshire we have no private or grammar schools at all in our LA, and most students simply go to their nearest comprehensive school. With the best will in the world there is no way that all schools are equal because the demographic at each school is not equal. And because of the idiots who voted this government in the gap between the haves and the have nots will widen.

This is interesting, and so is this

Finland, Latvia, and Poland have the most equal education systems in Europe so, assuming the OP was living in Europe she must have lived in one of these countries. Which one is it?

You shouldn't have more choice because you have money!

OP - where in the world is this not true?! So those who work hard for a decent career should not be able to have any extra choices compared to those who choose not to work?

@peteneras Totally agree, UK education system . Many countries model their own after us or send students our way to benefit from a well rounded education.

If OP is too lazy to utilize the resources available, work hard and fight to uplift, yet blame the State for not doling out freebies that is just too bad.

@AdultHumanFemale I sympathize with your emotions and feel for the inequality in opportunities. One can make a similar argument as well for healthcare, home ownership, jobs etc. etc. etc. Sadly that is the world & life presently isn't it?

So which of these services should be considered essential? Which of these should be free? Which of these should be free and equal? Who decides? Who provides and who pays for it?

Anyway abolishing private schools isn't the solution to what you highlighted. Assume for a moment that happens, and all children get asked to go to state schools paying no fees? Can state schools cope with the overload? Not to mention having funding to provide similar facilities that you mention being provided in the private schools but to a larger population now?

What would be the next step to address funding issue? Means based tuition levy? That wouldn't be equal or free is it?

@adulthuman but how would abolishing private and selective schools provide access to these opportunities if they were abolished?

"Concentrate on getting church schools abolished rather than worrying about private schools."

Huh?

Why scrapping one and not the other? In my books, they are both the same, i.e. private - for members only!

And OP, please get real. There's absolutely nothing equal on this earth. Look no further than your own self. Raise both your hands in front of your face. What do you see? Fingers and thumbs. Some short; some long. Some fat, and some thin. Some strong, and some not so strong. So you have inequality even in your own person.

There's nothing to complain about the British education system whatsoever. Everything is there for you - if you want it, go get it! But please don't expect it to fall on your lap. It's apparent you refuse to reveal which great country you've just returned from that has a fantastic educational system. But I'm thinking more about children from under- and/or developing countries and the education (or the complete absence of it) that they get or don't get before I even think of the British system. Just thank your lucky stars you have access to British education.

I'm a teacher and would absolutely love for private and selective schools to be abolished. Should add faith schools to that too, despite working in a CE.
The inner city primary where I work is situated between three private schools within 5-10 minutes walking distance. We occasionally get invited to events at their schools in order to help them maintain their charitable status. The difference is stark and it upsets me so much that my pupils, through no fault of their own, are unable to access the kind of experiences that their peers, through no merit of their own, are enjoying day to day. Also, in an affluent city like ours, a disproportionate number of children from high income families attend the many private schools clustered within a mile radius of the city centre. This means that state primaries like ours do not benefit from having a broad range of socioeconomic backgrounds represented in our school community, despite being located right on the doorstep of some of the most expensive residential properties in the country.
Grr.

@CherryPavlova .. That is a select group of countries with small populations. There are other countries as well, but have you seen the side effects that come with "free state education" even in small population countries? There is a cost to the individual, family and society that is not openly evident.

Below are some quotes from the same top 10 article you probably looked at.

"However, the school system also has a reputation as being a pressure cooker, putting students under a lot of stress at a young age."

"From secondary onwards students are separated by ability."

Like you say, it becomes difficult when parents don't want to play their part and instead expect the state to provide education equally and for free.

I agree with you, knowledge is supposed to be the great equaliser, our schools that most people use cus they have no choice are just designed to create docile factory workers back in the victorian era, while the rich children kept being privately tutored at home and it's just evolved to what it is now, over sized classrooms with teachers spread thin and just trying to hit pointless guidelines or attendance numbers so they can keep begging for money off the government, it;s horrible to see

I agree in principle but there are few countries without segregation in education by wealth. Interestingly Barbados, Austria and Estonia all do well when compared globally and have very limited private education.

For a comprehensive system to work properly all children need to attend state schools. Unfortunately, the strongest and most accurate indicator of future success is parental influence. A fully comprehensive system would not be balanced because there would be selection based on house prices giving very different experiences between, say, Winchester or Esther and Great Yarmouth or Morecambe.

It would mean bussing children to get full integration and I’m not convinced that’s a good thing. Until parents revert to supporting schools in maintaining standards and setting rules, many state school teachers will have to continue to battle to get reasonably acceptable behaviour.

I went to a non selective secondary school and my education was patchy.
some of my teachers were very good, others bored and the rest didn't seem to know what they were doing.
There is another factor you are forgetting.
the children that attend the school. I lost count of how many of my lessons were interrupted by the behaviour of class mates. For many reasons they did not want to be there and caused as much trouble as they could to stop the class, but it wasn't just them it affected.
I moved to a different school for the last two years of secondary and there was a difference. Still the disruptive element but on a much smaller scale as most of those had already been kicked out of another school. So they could not risk playing up so much.
But still lessons got messed up.
My eldest child goes to a secondary in London with over 1000 girls on the books huge step from her one form primary but she has adapted. It was selective but only on faith & language. The girls still sit an entrance exam as they are required to be banded into three ability groups. The school has to prove that they have offered places to no more than 25% of the highest group, 25% from lower and 50% from middle.
They are extremely strict and girls do get consequences for wrong uniform, mobile phones on in school, wrong books & late etc. They have clear boundaries and all of them excel and if the school do not feel they are meeting their personal targets they quickly step in to support them to do so.
this effort by the school is reflected in their exam results and how many apply to go to the school.
I never had any one to one support from my teachers it took my first boss to tell me I was at least partially dyslexic.
The system cannot cope with number of kids esp around London as more houses are being built but not more schools. Having good private schools in an area can help the others it allows those that feel they can afford/want to send their children to a private school to reduce the pressure on others around them. Many private schools work with state schools to help their students - my youngest child has just benefited from this. A year of challenging classes, experiences they would not have had and excellent exam results.

Private schools are not an option for all, but they are not the big demon others make them out to be either.

It isn’t just about how good the school is either. I have friends that are teachers in deprived areas. They are amongst the best funded schools around, their teaching is excellent, the kids get all sorts of stuff thrown at them. In contrast schools in nice middle class villages can easily coast and are often have the least amount of funding ( no pupil premium) but they will still get better results.
Private schools aren’t that amazing really. They just have a different cohort.

deep but under OPs utopia, the state would fully fund the move, provide accommodation etc etc and it would be all equal like pp said a Gilead.

The system of not setting year groups and just sticking them in classes for age doesn’t work out well for the bottom or the top. They go at the pace of the middle and if you can’t keep up you can’t keep up. That’s equal but not fair. Is that what your advocating?
You get 100 hours of maths a year, if it’s not enough to learn the quadratic equations you can’t get any more, if you learned it after 5 hours you sit there and keep quiet for 95.
Education isn’t manufacturing you can’t stick the same parts in and get uniform results. My child is being failed but the education system but it wouldn’t be helped by abolishing the current system. It would be helped by funding schools better (which has happened in the past). Do you have an education background op?

How far do you take this? Let's say you ban private schools. Do you also ban private tutors? Private sports academies? Private music centres? Summer camps? Wealthy people have more money to spend on everything, not just education.

Which country were you living in? Was there equality in everything or just education? Healthcare, housing etc?

@TitianaTitsling Now we should take the State to task for not providing "equal live abroad opportunities"? Then, let's begin with "Undo BrExit campaign" as that has taken away the right of Brits to live and work freely within the EU!

That's a whole other topic. @deep501 I'm just pointing out that education provision in Scotland is far from equal. You just need to look at the exam results between schools in the wealthiest vs those in the most deprived areas to see that.

I don't understand the 'surprise' at the fact there is private schools in the UK from the OP, it's not a new thing as OP has pointed out themselves, and OP states that they are originally from here. Do you not think that you had the opportunity to move abroad to live is unfair to those who can't? Why should you have been able to do so then?

Even if the schools are all equal some children will be at an advantage within it. Children of highly successful parents will probably be advantaged in a similar field due to a mixture of nature & nurture. Think of footballers & athletes, eg Andy Murray, his brother & mother, Ian Wright & his family. We see the same with acting dynasties and musicians. Similarly lawyers where there is a huge benefit to having a retentive memory or scientists who grasp principles quickly. The equal education disappears as soon as you throw children into the mix.

Maybe the dream is to have an appropriate education for each child so they each achieve the most they can and feel accomplished.

@happycamper11 That sort of lack of integrity & ethics from parents is sad to see. There should be checks and balances to prevent this sort of misuse. Forget getting children the "best free education", firstly the focus should be on teaching children basic values. I wonder what values gets instilled in kids who see their parents fake an address to get seats.

Also I'd say that state schools are far from equal here. People lie and/or temporarily rent to get in to the catchment of a school just a mile from their own catchment one.