Shouldnt equal education be available to everyone?

@Ratrace123 - Let's not forget the genius counterargument from the wondrous Diane Abbot..in response to her being challenged on why she was suddenly anti-private schools..having privately educated her own. 'Em Er Em Er...wellll that was then, and this is now.....'
There is really no point arguing with people who can't seem to grasp rational reality beyond the tip of their own nose....

Thank you @deep501. Aspiration is available to all, both rich & poor..and everything in between. Whichever way we choose to go about it.
We have and are about to again, turned down the choice of two top performing grammar schools; because the private alternatives we looked at, offered something beyond the basics, and we felt our children would be happier there..not because we felt they would do 'better'. These decisions have certainly not been easy, and we've had to compromise so much financially this far..but that is something we feel quite entitled to do. We pay our taxes towards schools we don't use, and spend our hard-earned money towards choosing what we feel is best for our children. That has nothing to do with elitism or unfairness..and everything to do with autonomy and choice. A choice that we have enabled for ourselves, through sheer hard work and long-term aspirations.
I have also known families, who have sent their children to our daughter's school by way of bursary. So these opportunities are not just open to those who can afford it. I guess some people just see what they want to see...got to have somebody to blame for their own huge shoulder chips of doom and discontent...

@kenandbarbie : clean, concise and a free market explanation! That should settle it then.

Banning private schools isn't the solution. In areas where there are good state schools, private schools tend to shut down. There's no need for them when state schools are good.

OP have you just swallowed some of Labour’s seminal texts on abolition of private schools? It sounds like you have. Look what happened to them in the recent GE

The idea of a fully statist education system was abhorrent to most families.

Posted too early

1. Top private schools aren’t only for the rich. Many have 20 percent of students in bursaries and are raising funds to be completely needs-blind

1. The gap between state schools is more significant than the gap between private and state regarding impact

There is lot wrong with the OPs assertions:

1. The majority of students attending Oxbridge are state school students not privately educated students
2. All Russel group universities provide contextual offers to disadvantaged pupils
3. Historically, certain professions have been dominated by the privately educated but that’s changed. The majority of new MPs for instance entering parliament are state educated now rather than privately educated

There are a lot of ill-informed left wing comments here starting with OP who even refuses to disclose which education utopia he witnessed. Then there are people claiming that not everyone works hard for their money. I am shocked!

It's heartening to see objective opinions as well from @Mumto2two, @CountFosco making different yet conscious choices about state vs private schools for their DC.

From my own experience, I can say that without the advantage of being from a privileged class or attending private school it was possible to attend a top university pursuing a course of my interest, have a fulfilling career including postings abroad and get to financial affluence. But nothing comes easy, one has to work hard for it especially money. If one keeps up the effort, sooner or later opportunities come along.

Delegating the responsibility of equal education to the State and then expecting opportunities to be doled out won't cut it. Neither does adopting a cynical attitude, pessimism and constantly bickering about an unfair system.

All I can say is please continually encourage your DC on optimism, can-do attitude, diligent study ethics and the willingness to pursue dreams. Support them to the best of your abilities and then watch them thrive and fly high.

@angell84 Sets are needed, I went to a state secondary school that only had sets in English and Maths. At school I was an A/A* pupil across everything but the arts. I had to share my science, geography and history classes with pupils who were E grade students. As a result I wasn’t given the opportunity to learn, they also weren’t given the opportunity to learn. I had to teach myself to secure an A grade at GCSE as the teacher had no choice but to teach for the average student in the class.

Even if we abolish public schools it doesn’t remove equality. Do you think state schools in poor areas will offer the same educational chances as those in wealthy areas?

Also, you did not mention equality of postcodes in your posts.

I'm not sure where you moved back to, but a few miles away from me there is an exceptional state school - trouble is, the houses have an exceptional price tag. The catchment is extremely tight so it's mostly wealthy children who go. So even if you abolish fee paying schools, how do you tackle that inequality?

The people at the top haven’t been to any old private school, they’ve been to one of around ten of fifteen top tier private schools. Those people are also almost exclusively male, maybe we should ban private schools for boys? The privilege of those people didn’t start at school, it started at birth, private schools are a symptom not a cause. If private schools were to be banned in the UK the very richest would simply be either sending their children abroad to boarding school or hiring private tutors. The slightly less rich but still wealthy would be buying property near the countries best state schools. Banning private schools wouldn’t get rid of the endemic, entrenched elitism of Britain’s top institutions.

were in. They've moved back to the UK.
Did you do any research into the UK education system before you came OP?

OP still hasn't told us which country they are in.

Or whether it provides free health care.

Do expand on this OP...

So what would be the point of working so bloody hard

Not everyone works hard for their money

I don’t see what the point of this ‘trying to be clever’ comment is. Most people work bloody hard for their money, very few are so privileged that they don’t need to work. They are in the very small minority. Is that better now ?

I was at a book club here in the U.K, and a man that was present bragged about what school he went to, and looked down his nose at some of the other people in the group, who went to lesser schools

I don't mix with people like this. Folk in Yorkshire are much more down to earth.

I was at a book club here in the U.K, and a man that was present bragged about what school he went to, and looked down his nose at some of the other people in the group, who went to lesser schools
I remember looking at him with incredulity, thinking "you are a man in your forties, who cares what school you went to"
Normally people who do this haven't achieved much since they left school, so have to hark back to when they last felt superior.

I don't think the answer is to abolish independent schools, but to fund state schools so they are on an equal footing

Absolutely agree with this ^^

Exactly deep501. It doesn’t make their education systems better than ours then. I saw a TV programme a while back about China (I think), and possibly South Korea where children are forced to study until ridiculously late in the evening. It can’t be good for their mental health.

Where is this educational Utopia where you lived OP?

There are some basic misunderstandings by the OP

Fairness does not mean giving the same to everyone - if you have a starving child and a well fed child you wouldn’t feed them identically- fairness would be to give each what they need - equality therefore is not about having the identical same but trying to get all what they need...

We don’t do well at that - but the answer is not to remove what is excellent and leave everyone with what is less good on the basis that they all have the same (labour / communist approach) - the answer is to find ways of giving the same opportunity to all... even if it means that the actual education is different for each child...

From a social perspective - Eton is one of the most socially diverse schools in the country - they are moving to a needs blind approach where any child who would benefit from an Eton education, regardless of background / social class / wealth will be able to go even if they need a free place to allow that - they have people out all around the country looking for suitable boys in school systems who wouldn’t traditionally send a child to Eton...

Many other private schools are also looking at this approach - they also tend to have more of a social mix as they offer a mixture of bursaries, scholarships, etc and take in children from a wider catchment area.

On the other hand most state schools are a very narrow social mix as the school tends to take children from a narrow area and therefore similar housing / social mixture... in fact good state schools will increase demand and narrow the area and influence house prices making it even less diversified

So the reality is very different from the left wing inaccuracies the OP is spouting - getting rid of private schools would weaken our society not make it fairer...

On the other hand - dealing with child poverty (poverty at a wealth / emotional / parenting / opportunity / etc level) would be a very good thing- it is just much harder than the easy jealousy driven target of get rid of the ‘elite’ which needs no thinking or intelligence to propagate as a concept ;)

@deep501 ‘If OP is too lazy to utilize the resources available, work hard and fight to uplift, yet blame the State for not doling out freebies that is just too bad’

Well said..my sentiments exactly

Oh, god, it's you again...

It's called choice. We aren't a dictatorship, and people are entitled to spend their money as they please.

Education is a human right. The state provides access to education and that offer is taken up by 93% of parents.

Really - go back to moaning about how the UK is more racist than Australia/Canada or how you want a man who will start your car for you because all Irish men are unchivalrous mummy's boys. You'll still be as ill-informed, but it makes it easier for other posters to identify you rather than indulging your sophomoric whims and only realising too late.

@posterGinfordinner .. Refer to my earlier post about the hidden "costs" embedded in some of these equitable education systems.

South Korea has a pressure cooker university entrance process, compulsory conscription into Armed Forces at age of 18 lasting 2 years.

Singapore screens children at primary leaving based on ability in form of exam (similar to 11+), the secondary school a child goes into pretty much dictates the rest of their life. Pressure cooker environment right through school. Late bloomers have zero chance, neither does creativity or innovation. There is also compulsory conscription for all males at age of 18 for 2 years.

None of these above requirements are avoidable, in both countries dodging the draft is a criminal offense.

Now please tell me, will UK citizens accept any of the above for their children in return for a similar "equitable education system" as in those countries?

I don't think the answer is to abolish independent schools, but to fund state schools so they are on an equal footing. Obviously some independent schools will still have beautiful grounds and traditions that state schools tend not to have, but people can choose to pay for they have the money.

My DCs school is falling further and further into debt because they just aren't receiving sufficient funds. I am close to taking my DC out and sending them to an independent school, just so they can receive what I consider to be a standard level of education, not substandard with nearly 40 in an art class, absent teachers covered by admin staff and zero resources.

All children should receive a good education. If you were to remove independent schools then almost no one would get one. It doesn’t matter how equal education is if it’s shit.

So what would be the point of working so bloody hard

Not everyone works hard for their money.

But education is not free in all countries. If you can't afford to educate your child, they don't go to school