Shouldnt equal education be available to everyone?

To be fair I've worked several years ago in a pastoral setting previously in a 'failing school', in a very deprived area. No amount of extra funding can facilitate parents prepared to share the learning responsibility at home. Be that reading, writing, homework. If there's something not happening at home due to whatever circumstance, it's something all the money in the world can't fix. Sometimes semi attendance is the best you can literally aspire to. If a child repeatedly attends secondary school with nits, no homework completed, and rarely a breakfast nevermind a bath. Injecting government funds won't cure what's happening behind the scenes, and parental support courses generally just at best teach the most basic of skills to impart. Not every child will/can attend Oxbridge, sometimes it's 'enough' that they leave education with basic Maths/English, or else they'd be illiterate.

flowerylamp - might that be because there are so many of them? It would be hard to achy consistency with 24, 500 schools in England- let alone rest of U.K. There is no central oversight and huge variations in funding, governance autonomy. A free school in a new build with additional funding , in a rich area is going to be very different from a comprehensive with very poor facilities somewhere more challenged.

Personally I think the worst gap is between state schools themselves. Depending on where you live the standard can vary in a big way.

Yes equal education should be available to all. The system here is terrible and getting worse.

Either it’s Finland or she’s making it up.

There are some countries that don't have many independent schools but I can't think of any that don't have any at all.

The OP may be interested to know that some studies suggest that state schools perform better in countries where there is a strong independent sector.

OP in your opening post you stated: "I lived in another country where equal education was available to everyone."

What is this country and why haven't you named it despite many posters asking you which one it is?

OP, the reason you are "goading" is because you've refused to name the country that you claim has equal education for everyone (whatever that means). People are left to assume it's because you're aware that no education system is perfect and your idea of "equality" in education probably comes with some pretty significant downsides.

I too was wondering which country the op was living..?

Germany had Waldorf, Jenaplan, Montessori and International schools - whether going private led to state recognised qualifications is another issue. Whilst they do not operate one size fits all, their tiered system of Mittel, Real and Gymnasium with many SEN lumped into Förderschulen and no possibility of home educating means that many pupils, especially with SEN or from a migration background, end up discriminated against. The grass is not greener ime.

I was go to say the same. Germany has an increasing number of private schools and private international schools.

And within the German state school system there are most definitely academic criteria to determine whether you can go to a Gymnasium (Grammar school up to 18) or to a Realschule (comprehensive school ending at 16). In other words there most definitely not a 'one size fits all' education!

@Mumto2two that 'looking down our noses' comment made me chuckle. People love to jump in with their accusatory pants. I have experienced being a student in an inner London school, lived in a deprived borough too. I know many of us simply weren't being encouraged. Myself included. I was definitely one of the better behaved, and managed to escape actual carnage when I entered the top sets in Year 10. Even there, you could tell which of us had involved parents. Parents who would ask about homework, or want to explore ways to get their grades up. Most of these parents were recent immigrants. My parents set the bar very low, so I just towed that line until I got a little older and realised I could do sooo much better for myself. Still, it was later than it could have been.

With this as my own experience, I will now be very involved with my DC, but we are top earners living in an area with good primary schools and not so good secondaries. Private or grammars will be considered, but whatever happens, the best I can do is just to be involved and engaged.

I know of children who have had 100% bursary and full support. I don’t think it is that rare.

HelloDulling that’s very good but rare.

Do you pay for transport and sportswear or musical instruments too?

I’m assuming the bursaries are scholarship linked - is that purely academic? Or music and sports too? Is there a limitation from things like a foreign language paper?

@CherryPavlova I work in admissions at an independent school. All our bursaries are 100% off fees, plus a uniform allowance and transport to and from school if required. And our bursaries are funded out of fees income.

I've not read the whole thread so sorry if this has been said, but at least having some kids in private education takes some pressure off the state system by reducing numbes?

Also more and more universities are making contextual offers for kids who have studied in deprived area, under performing schools etc, so that's a step in the right direction.

@JayDot500 - Sounds very similar to our local upper school. Long considered a priority for funding, and the best facilities by far all round. Sadly wasted on a significant contingent of ‘can’t be boverreds’. Parents also a problem for the many staff that also often choose to leave. This ‘inequality’ will always remain, as long as there are people who care..and people who quite frankly, don’t. The same contingent who will moan about the posh kids at the grammars and private schools around...and probably with the often too familiar, accusatory sarcasm of ‘looking down our noses’ up thread...

I agree @Mumto2two

We live in a 'deprived' area. We recently went to see a play held at the most esteemed grammar around here. The building literally looked as if it was falling apart, yet it is the school all parents will have in mind when entering the 11+ process. Compare that school to the non-selective secondary school near to us. This school has excellent facilities (the place is packed on weekends as so many classes are held there!). Teacher friends who have worked in this school (plus some non teaching staff) say the turnover there is high mostly due to the attitude of the parents along with behaviour/disruption during lessons. The only good thing is that the few who want to engage with the school end up with a lot of support from grateful teachers, and great facilities available to them. So, funding is not an issue for this school. Instead, the poor attitude towards education among parents/students needs focus. A shiny school with many kids and poor outcomes is just a sad situation, not 'equality' by any stretch of the imagination.

Yes of course Purple. And the grammars in this area are well known for their heavily tutored intake, and continued requirement to tutor once they are there. That’s why they get the results they do. The school’s funding has very little to do with it. That’s why I was making that comparison. There is so much wrong with many aspects of the system, and some have better means to better themselves than others..but having a determination and aspiration to succeed, in whatever we do...whether it be academic, business, sport or whatever, is still very much imperative.

Yes all schools should offer an equal level of education and this isn't the case at all. Certain schools have parents desperate to get their children in whether it's by joining a religion, attending a place of worship, privately tutoring them to get them to pass an exam or simply moving house to be in a catchment. This then makes those desirable schools even more desirable and the others less so. But abolishing private schools isn't the answer. That would just lead to more demand for the 'better' schools in the state sector and more demand on those schools generally. There needs to be more investment in all state schools. If every state school offered equally great opportunities as the better ones then there would barely be a market for most private schools anyway.

Not all grammar schools are selective.

Can you imagine why a school creaming off the most able pupils might get great results?

When it comes to all education being "equal" is that meant in terms of input or output, ie should all pupils get the same level of support or should all children achieve the same?

I do not think that everyone should get the same level of support for the simple reason that some need more and some need less. I absolutely support SEN departments and specialists. I also don't think that the goal should be that everyone achieves the same - we are all different and that should be appreciated.

However, I do believe in an education system where there is a decent base level available to everyone. But education doesn't only happen in school, much happens at home too and as many have mentioned, not everyone gets the needed support from home.

The current system is not perfect, but I don't know any system that is in reality (on paper yes).

Sorry Purple..yes it’s a grammar

You didn’t say whether that school is selective.

Not my angel..but thank you for your sarcasm. Always good to add to any discussion..

He wanted that for himself, and he made sure he got it.

Kudos to your perfect boy. It's not that simple for everyone and it isn't always about not having ambition, but I'm sure you enjoy looking down your nose at the kids who don't achieve as much as your determined little angel

Is that a selective school?