Parents struggling with tiers of GCSE Entry

But, it seems a shame to me that someone predicted a 5 should, according to guidance, not be given the chance to try for the 6.

That's going to depend on whether they're predicted a hopeful 5, but might slip to a 4 in which case the lower level would be better.
Or they're going for a high 5 and might just push it up to a 6, in which case the higher would often be better.

You've also got the child's personality to go in. Some children would take the higher as a challenge and work up to it. Other children will find it thoroughly miserable to have a paper where a good amount on it is inaccessible and give up.

When I did GCSE the people predicted C in science (lower level could get up to a C, higher level got a U if you dropped below a C) were offered the choice with a discussion with the teacher. It was about 50% chose each level. Some of my friends were very relieved to be given the lower option.

I agree that the decision should be heavily guided by teachers. However sometimes they get it wrong or aren't aware of the current thinking.

They are still probably more knowlegeable than 99% of parents. Unless you have a parent who is a current GCSE teacher in that subject then I doubt your parents (including me) know that much about it.

In science, it's not just about the difference in content, it's also about the style of question asked- the foundation paper tends to have shorter answer questions, easier language and more multiple choice style questions. Higher paper has more 6 mark questions and breaks content down a lot more.

I do think there's a case for some kind of intermediate paper or allowing mixing of tiers in combined science- however, this makes things even more complicated and is unlikely to happen when there's a current move away from tiering altogether. However, equally, there's no real benefit to getting a 6, unless you're going on to further study, and then you should be easily capable of high tier.

A child who rushes and makes lots of mistakes in science is probably better on Foundation, as the questions are broken down more and they'd be forced to stop and think a bit more about what they were writing. They'd also be better off learning some proper exam technique, rather than gambling on getting the right questions on higher.

I think most teachers do know what they're doing (now) and so it's best to trust them unless you're really sure a mistake is being made.

Yes but if you have a child who is not accurate and rushes papers they will not pass foundation as the pass grade is or can be over 60% at foundation but around 25% at higher
The above statement does not take into account the level of difficulty of the questions. So you may have a child in a lower set that has not been taught the more difficult content needed for grade 8+ so may only be able to access part of the higher paper anyway.
As I said in my post the decisions made at the moment are not completely final and some dcs who make a lot of improvement may be moved up to the Higher tier or vice-versa later on.

Yes but if you have a child who is not accurate and rushes papers they will not pass foundation as the pass grade is or can be over 60% at foundation but around 25% at higher

The child that is not accurate and rushes the paper is likely to pick up odd marks here and there across the whole paper though - which might well translate into a pass. There are no easy marks on the higher paper, particularly if they find 60% of it is inaccessible to them (and lack of accuracy will not help them!).

Yes but if you have a child who is not accurate and rushes papers they will not pass foundation as the pass grade is or can be over 60% at foundation but around 25% at higher .

I have this at the moment. A parent insisting their child should be sitting higher paper in science despite Us in mocks

Parents should check the tier to ensure their child has the best chance of getting the best grade and to ensure their child doesn't leave with a U in any subject.

No, I disagree, parents should trust the teachers to enter their children for the most appropriate tier and if they can't trust the teachers then they should address this with the school and considered a new school at the point they realised they didn't trust.

I'm busy telling myself I mustn't give the school the impression I want DD2 to do higher maths. I mean, I do, but only if the school think it's what is best.
Though I definitely think foundation science would be best for her.

The additional problem with Combined Science is that mixing the tiers isn't allowed. So if you have a pupil that's grade 7 in Chemistry and only grade 4 in Physics taking Higher Chemistry and Foundation Physics isn't allowed.

Parents should check the tier to ensure their child has the best chance of getting the best grade and to ensure their child doesn't leave with a U in any subject.
Not sure I agree with this statement. It's up to the teachers to set the tier of entry and it isn't necessarily fixed as last minute changes are possible. Parents insisting that their child should be doing the Higher paper against the teachers advice could be one of the reasons that some pupils are obtaining lower grades.
The real reason that parents need to know the tier of entry is to make sure that their child actually sits the correct paper on the day of the exam.

It’s also about the mathematical experience of the grade 5 student sitting an exam that is totally unsuitable for them

Yes. This. If you have some basic facility in French or Spanish or German, have a look at the F and H tier writing past papers (new spec). You will see the point. Being asked, in target language, to write a 150-word piece about a live music gig you saw will daunt many who otoh may well be able to write four statements about a picture ("hay un hombre" will get you the marks)

They got rid of intermediate because foundation only went up to a D and they said it was bad to have an exam you couldn’t get a pass in. So they raised foundation and lowered higher and scrapped intermediate.

But, it seems a shame to me that someone predicted a 5 should, according to guidance, not be given the chance to try for the 6.

It’s also about the mathematical experience of the grade 5 student sitting an exam that is totally unsuitable for them.

Why did they get rid of intermediate maths?

okie I'm happy to let the teachers decide.

But, it seems a shame to me that someone predicted a 5 should, according to guidance, not be given the chance to try for the 6.

After all they let all the 8 students aim for a 9, (which in my view is a totally unnecessary grade just leading to unnecessary pressure on top students.)

oooh I'd not want to scrap tiers in MFL. Foundation paper is definitely accessible in a way that higher just wouldn't be for a lot of candidates.

Here's an idea, how about letting the experts, the teachers decide. I was surprised they entered dd for higher as she is dyslexic and had struggled in English and French but she got 6's and a b in French - the teacher was right to stretch her

They really should introduce intermediate so that kids in the middle don't have to sit tests where they answer such a low percentage of questions that they feel stupid and have an agonising wait for August.

I was the one that posted about a sixth form wanting a 5 on the higher tier and not the foundation tier. It wasn't in the subjects the student was actually taking for A Level. DS is likely to get a 7+ in physics (the subject he actually wants to study) but one sixth form insists he must get 5 on the higher tier in biology and chemistry.

I think this advice is interesting as it's what DC's school has been saying (they won't enter you for higher unless they think you can get 6+) but not what it seems other schools advise.

Back in the day, there were 3 papers for maths. I remember I had to take the higher paper and the middle paper. The papers were marked separately and you got whatever was the higher grade (so if you had a disaster on the higher paper you had a fallback "C" on the middle paper). Maybe that's a better method?

As I am of yours.
Let’s just leave it at that.

So, ‘for A levels a student shouldn’t be taking them if they got a 5 on either paper to be honest. They will struggle a lot.’
So why ask the question that parents ought to check which tier their DC is sitting, if a grade 5- no matter which tier- won’t be sufficient for A level study?