Any 11+ SWLon success from kids who aren’t tutored?

It was helpful to read your insights above. I was looking this up as now schools are closed and we're only being set homework.

Our school let us know that Atom Learning are also hosting free online lessons for absolutely anyone in English, maths and reasoning 8-12 years old. we did it on the weekend and was really great! we signed up on their website .

Hope this helps

Not all results for 11+ 2020 are out yet OP. Being invited to interviews are no guarantee of an offer! It does indicate that your child has passed the exam but there is still a long way to go to secure a place this year. You might have more honest replies to your question towards the end of February.

FWIW I have a child at a selective co-Ed indie in SWLondon who was not tutored but did attend a prep school. The idea of extra tutoring on top of the already rigorous preparation that goes on in some of these prep schools scares me! I don’t believe in tutoring but sadly lots do and it does make it much more difficult for those who choose not to. Of course it’s a different story if your child attends a state primary as they may need guidance on how to pass the papers/timing/curriculum covered by Jan etc.

Two children from a state school background at primary, both now in selective independent schools (and tutored for 2 years). I don’t know of a single child who did the 11+ who wasn’t tutored. Why you would enter the “arms race” unarmed, I don’t know. Sad but true. Actually with two pretty capable kids I welcomed the tutoring. It challenged them where the state primary school didn’t and has prepared them better for life at a selective school.

No, these schools are all pretty much the same once they get in - ie normal schools! They all do the same GCSEs at the end of the day! The only difference is that nearly everyone will be on track for 7/8/9 grades, so they can adapt the curriculum pace to this cohort. For instance, my DS felt extremely average at one of these schools, but still came out with all 9 grades. He was in one of the bottom of ten maths sets, but still got a 9 because most in the school did. I credit his friends with his results . DS put in the extra effort because he was comparing himself to his friends who were very able. He definitely wouldn’t have otherwise. In another school he might well have been a lot more complacent. But they all got 9s and felt slightly above average, rather than outstanding. At least they won’t be phased when applying for competitive uni courses of jobs etc so in this sense it’s a reality check and it stands them in good stead for life.

ZebrA - also, just in case you didn’t know, there are a group of about 12 girls schools called the London Girls Consortium who have grouped together to select pupils based on one single entrance exam, which can then be used to apply at any one of their schools (obviously some schools requiring higher marks than others).

In the last two years, they have tried to respond to what they see as the unnecessary stress and tutoring debacle in London and the need for primary school children to be doing endless exam prep, by changing their exam to a format designed to level the playing field by being “tutor proof”. It’s basically a version of a CAT test and the whole point of this kind of test is to measure innate ability, not learned ability. It’s mainly in a multi choice format. DD did this last year and said it was like nothing else she’d seen in her life (and she was at a prep). It’s nothing like the kind of VR or NVR in Bond books for instance, nor was it like BOFA. She ended up at G&L via this exam. Girls come there from all over the place as it’s do near Hammersmith tube and so far, it seems a lovely, unpretentious environment. Not pressurised at all.

So the entrance exams for some schools are far more “tutorable” than others. For instance, if the DC in your child’s class have sat KGS for instance, you can do a lot of practise for that style of exam as technique would matter, as well as ability. Even the brightest child would be at a disadvantage if they had never practised writing an effective short story in 20 mins, for instance.

I would say >80% of private school pupils are being tutored and a similar number at state schools. People will claim not to tutor but may DIY so feel that doesn't count.

Those who say they didn't tutor and their kids got in fine - SW London has changed in the last 5 years. The number of Y6 kids is higher and the number of private school places available has not risen to keep pace

Just to give a slightly different perspective on SW London preparation for 11+ independent school entry - I think it depends a lot on the primary school (whether prep or state and, more importantly, exactly which school) as to whether most parents tutor or not. Some schools have more chilled parents and other schools tend to have parents whipping each other into a school-gate frenzy in my experience. My DC both went to a prep school to age 11 and were never tutored by anyone other than me helping them. They are both at an excellent school which suits them both (for different reasons as they are both very different kids). Most of the kids at the school were, however, tutored and I know (because I was told more than once) that no one believed me that my kids weren’t! I genuinely did rely on the school to get them to the right academic position - I just helped with exam technique and confidence (crucial, in my view) in the months before the exams. If your DC is at a state school and you want them to go to a London indie at 11+, I think a tutor would be invaluable for exam technique, advice on the right schools for that particular child and access to the most helpful past papers for that child.

Agree with Jojo that it’s not so much that parents have single sex schools specifically in mind, more that the top performing schools tend to be single sex in your area ZebrA. Schools such as LEH, WHS, PHS, GHS, G&L, SPGS achieve well over 90% 9-7 grades at GCSE every year. The boys schools such as Hampton, KCS or SPS are the same. This is why people put DC through the hoopla of 11 plus. To put the difference bluntly, even an outstanding state school would be achieving 30% 9-7. I think the national average is below 20%.

The academic co- ed option in your area would be KGS. Or LU if that’s not too far.

But other, less competitive schools such as St Catherine’s still have a much higher “value added” so this is why they appeal. They get in the region 50-60% 9-7 grades and some obviously think this is worth paying for. Plus much smaller class sizes.

Tiffin Girls and Boys have thousands applying and the tutoring for those schools is a whole other business altogether.

Of course, children can and do vey well at any school but, because you are asking, this is just a perspective on why people put themselves through the 11 plus madness.

If you look at the % of grades 7-9 at GCSE, the highest performers in the country are single sex schools and many parents prefer them. Westminster or Wimbledon High etc have a lot more applicants and are therefore a lot more competitive than the top co-ed schools.

The co-eds often tend to be a bit less difficult to get into than single sex indies.

For academic co-Ed options you’ve got Kingston Grammar and Epsom College. Claremont Fan is coed with a mix of abilities. St John’s Leatherhead is another option. For less academic children, there’s Ewell Castle. If you’re more towards Cheam or Sutton, then you’ll be on a coach route for Caterham School (academic), South Cheam also on a route for Reigate Grammar (academic) but it’ll also be easy for Royal Russell.

So there are plenty of schools at different levels of difficulty to choose from.

ZebrA - could you say vaguely what area you are in and which independent schools you’re thinking of applying to? They do vary a lot and yes, all the exams will be different formats.

I remember going on an Open Day (I think it was LU) and the head said that for children in state schools, they do recommend some tutoring, Not because standards are lower, but because the schedule of teaching the curriculum may vary - eg they are aiming to finish the curriculum in time for the SAT tests in the summer if Year 6, rather than focusing on getting through it all in time for the 11 plus.

Of course there are children who get into super-selective from state. I can give LU as one example as I have DC there and half the intake into Year 7 are from state. But I think it’s a mistake to see things only in terms of “state v private” or “tutor v non tutor” because there’s so many other factors that can affect a child’s chances - above all, how involved and informed parents are. For instance, my neighbours” DC got into a selective independent from a state school with no tutoring, but, then again, both parents are Oxbridge educated and she’s a SAHM who made this her focus, so they had more time and know-how than the average parent.

My dd went from a SW London state primary to a selective independent (and also got a grammar place) last year without having had a tutor. But we did spend about an hour a week in Y5 (a bit more in the summer holidays before Y6) teaching her the maths that her school hadn’t covered, exam technique, how to approach VR/NVR - all the stuff that preps do that primaries don’t.

So, it depends if you count that as tutoring.

State schools aren’t allowed to prep for 11+ and they won’t give children any practice papers. Prep schools, as the name suggests, are thereto prep for senior school.

Well, i have completely different experience. And noone i know in SW hires a student glittercats- everyone gets the agency, checks and crosschecks references, diplomas, etc. And yes, tutors are familiar with the schools, come prepared, etc- and most are already booked in year 5. Try finding a good tutor in year 6, even through the agency, and yiu’llkbow what i mean. We must be living in different SWs :). I personally think it is bonkers considering the school fees we are already paying but the sad reality is just that- the competition is so fierce that even private school plus tutoring plus a bright child does not guarantee that your child will get in. The system is not taking anything into equation- my friends’ children had to sit exams having 40 degrees fever because the school refused to change the date for them. The sheer notion that you can somehow predict who is going to succeed at 18 by testing them at 10 is ridiculous- yet they still do it! The vicious circle of oversubscribed schools, tutoring, stressed parents and unhappy children continues. Everyone is busy but noone is happy, ergh?