Please or to access all these features

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Are Trinity, DC, Whitgift schools anti-BAME?

29 replies

GhanaDad · 15/11/2019 20:09

Our son is currently enrolled at a top private preparatory school in Ghana 🇬🇭.

My wife and I would very much like him to attend the Whitgift School which is a major private school in Surrey, England.

We have been warned that the school accepts relatively few BAME students, and that this is normal for the private schools in England, despite many elite schools being situated in relatively multicultural areas.

If there is a problem with access to BAME at the elite schools in England, why is this the situation and what if anything is being done to redress the imbalance? Why are the grammar schools full of BAME students yet we are sorely underrepresented in the fee-paying schools?

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
DameJane · 30/11/2019 10:29

Op just wondering why you want your son to come to school in England? There are some really great schools in Ghana. Why come somewhere which is for the most part cold, grey and wet and where, regardless of diversity, he’ll still be considered a minority. Better to stay and thrive in Ghana.

Home2018 · 30/11/2019 00:17

Ghanadad - I think you have written about the best schools as far as the intake of black children is concerned. However, I have anecdotal stories of the schools trying to outwardly change their appearance to cater to those who have concerns about 'too many' black children. Of course, it would be hard to prove this and there is no hard evidence, but I would say that these are words that I have heard uttered from your more traditional independent school parent on more than one occasion. However, for balance and in my own experience, both look like great schools with great heads and inclusive/diverse staff groups.

I wrote this on another thread. It touches on some points you and other posters have made...................................................................................

OP, it's a shame that you have had a lot of parents provide their assertions without experience.

I, and every other parent of black children that I know, without exception, considers the ethnic makeup of a school in depth.

I know people who are considering offers for some of the counties most academic schools (think KCS, Eton, Winchester, NCLS) and the lack of black (not BME but black) children is a major conflict.

Whilst BME is an inclusive term, it doesn't take into account the different cultures that exist within it. In our school, a large proportion of the black children have faced racist incidents (often naive, media encouraged, parental ignorance-based) and comments. And, because these environments have historically had fewer black people in them, a lot of these stereotypes have gone unchecked.

Black people have a unique and individual set of racial stereotypes made against them, as does every other group, but a lot of the stereotypes are what one might say are bottom of the barrel. Think thieves, promiscuous, more aggressive, less intelligent, less wealthy, etc.

In contrast, although still racist, a lot of the stereotypes that exist around say South Asians, for instance, are well-prepped, very academic, very engaged parents (tiger mum-ish) and very ambitions. Whilst this is true in part, this is also true for other racial groups and not true for many South Asians.

As reluctant as I am to play stereotype Olympics, I know which group I'd rather fall into.

A lot of these schools are underrepresented because these exact stereotypes lead to a whole host of identity issues (as above) and I know in my experience, that being around people that looked like me helped, in part, to deal with the daily microaggressions of society.

Whilst the academics are undoubtedly amazing, what is the point if the children come out with identity issues and a lack of self-confidence/imposter syndrome. Honestly, confidence is the one definitive things that people invest in independent schooling for!

There is a concentration of children in Whitgift & Trintiy for this reason. And, despite all of the stereotypes, many full fee-paying, academic children, are in these schools over more academic schools that they have been awarded places in, because of the amount of black, not multi-ethnic, but black children already there!

Many posters see 'diversity' but that's such a lazy term. Just in the same way that I would not expect Irish, Scottish and German people to have the same culture, I don't expect African, Carribean, Chinese and Indian people to either. Yes, many London schools are diverse, but most, across the board, are willfully underrepresented when it comes to black children.

Despite the stereotypical assumptions made for the reasons why, for many black parents (not all, but the vast majority) that are in a position to independently educate their children, unless they can get their children into a handful of schools, many opt for state schooling instead to save their children the trauma of being so drastically 'othered'.

And, unfortunately, many children of mixed (black) heritage will also feel this way in adulthood but perhaps grown by parents that won't have this initial insight until the children are able t later relay understand, articulate and relay this information back to them - usually well into adulthood.

Home2018 · 29/11/2019 22:22

HappyPieFace " Ignorance + self entitlement. Urgh" is exactly what your post stinks of.

Why do you assume that your son has more right to be in these spaces? The schools are selective and the children who sit the papers with the best scores get the places.

Perhaps the reason that these schools are made up of largely Asian children is that they have put more work in, are smarter or simply performed better on the day.

Ignorance, self-entitlement, idiocy and a touch of racism - urgh!

Michaelahpurple · 23/11/2019 21:07

I suspect the OP was a wind up

Findumdum1 · 23/11/2019 19:12

You really couldn't get more racially diverse schools than the 3 you have mentioned here. As you'd expect with their location in a particularly diverse bit of the diverse coty if London. There are some that are very white out a bit further in Surrey, Sussex etc. These 3 London schools are most certainly not. You have been very badly advised.

Toporama · 23/11/2019 17:25

Yes... pity. I would genuinely like to know who his spectacularly inaccurate source of information was.

Someone who visited Harrow on a day trip in 1935?

Someone whose aunt's friend's grandmother read it in a book once?

Someone whose son didn't get a place and it can't possibly be because they failed the exam?

whataboutbob · 22/11/2019 21:55

Looks like Ghanadad has left the building....

Toporama · 17/11/2019 18:24

Hahaha - where on earth are you getting this from?! Seriously, who exactly is telling you this and what is their basis for it?

My son is mixed race and goes to Whitgift. Having spent several years as a Whitgift parent I can safely say that their intake is very, very diverse, as you would expect from this multi-ethnic area.

You only have to watch the kids coming out at the end of the school day to know that what you have been "warned" about is complete rubbish!

accidentalbride · 17/11/2019 10:33

This doesn't ring true at all. My son is at Trinity and at least half (if not more!) of his class are not white. In comparison, there were only 3 non white children in his state primary where he went before. His best friend who is Asian is at Whitgift. I really don't recognise this concern at all

GrumpyHoonMain · 16/11/2019 22:34

This may have been true years ago for 1st gen immigrants, but we are now looking at wealthy second or third gen British people of BAME origin or wealthy people from India / Africa- selective private or grammar education is often preferred by these communities now.

HappyPieFace · 16/11/2019 22:29

Hello Ghanadad,
Re.your comment " Why are the grammar schools full of BAME students". This is a thought provoking question, esp.re.schools such as St.Olaves in Orpington where the local population bears little resemblance to the 85% and rising BAME intake. Yet, a non-BAME parent would not dare question 'why is this the situation and what if anything is being done to redress the imbalance?' Re.your comment "yet we are sorely underrepresented in the fee-paying schools?" This assertion is nothing short of astounding. My son attends Trinity and he is definitely an ethnic minority there. He is white. Ignorance + self entitlemement. Urgh

Starter123 · 16/11/2019 22:18

My son goes to Whitgift and I am black. Whitgift is good for diversity. They are also very welcoming...

Darbs76 · 16/11/2019 21:02

Croydon is not in Surrey despite the postcode address. Surrey begins around 5/6 miles away as I live in the first town in the South London / Surrey border and I work in Croydon. Croydon is a London borough and there is an extremely diverse mix there. Many kids travel in from London too to attend the school. My son doesn’t go there but I see the Whitgift kids on the train and they are definitely not all white

lucozadeaids32 · 16/11/2019 15:32

I would not choose Whitgift - wonderful school that it is - for an overseas boarder. It is a day school with one boarding house where most of the students go home on a Saturday night.

The obvious choice for a full boarder from Africa is the King‘s School Canterbury. Substantial numbers of African students in the boarding community and in leadership positions throughout the school.

JoJoSM2 · 16/11/2019 13:42

As above, 86% of the U.K. is white. Parts of Croydon are very multicultural as is London is general and I’d say that’s reflected in the population at the private schools that way (Whitgift, Trinity, Royal Russell, Croydon High and others).

Michaelahpurple · 16/11/2019 09:22

Just read your post again - on what basis do you assert "you are sorely unrepresented" in fee-paying schools?

Michaelahpurple · 16/11/2019 09:21

I am with the "do more research" responders. Have you even looked at a prospectuses of these schools? Or at the population stats of Croydon or London? Whoever has been advising you seems to have dropped down a wormhole from 1930 and be confusing Whitgift with Harrow/Eton of the period.

The phraseology "accepts relatively few" is curious!

Great advice from the responder upthread from her very current experience.

chopc · 16/11/2019 07:37

If you need boarding I can't recommend Tonbridge School enough - my son started there in sixth form as a day student and he was made to feel so welcome. They have long school days and the amount of time he spends in school is because it is catered for boarders. It also has a fantastic house system which makes the boys have a strong sense of community and belonging . Of course they have high expectations academically and there is enough opportunity to succeed

stucknoue · 15/11/2019 22:11

Just a thought though, whitgift is a day school that has brought in a boarding house, most students though are day students, both DD's friends who went there weren't even aware that some boarded (I had asked them following on from a previous thread). If you are in Ghana I'm guessing you need full boarding

stucknoue · 15/11/2019 22:07

86% of people in the U.K. are white, it's not a surprise that they are the bulk of the students. Fees are very high so perhaps it's more about income

jgjgjgjgjg · 15/11/2019 22:00

I also have a son at Whitgift and can confirm that what you've been told is complete nonsense.

OP I strongly suggest you come and visit the locations and schools in question in person before deciding to send your son here all the way from Ghana, as your current source of information is clearly extremely unreliable verging on dangerous.

And yes, both Whitgift and Trinity are in the London Borough of Croydon, nothing to do with Surrey. Might be good to do a bit more research before attending the parental interview at Whithift.

BetteDavisthighs · 15/11/2019 21:41

Hi Ghanadad,

I am in the perfect position to answer this, because I am Indian, moving to the UK in 2020, and currently trying to get a sixth form place in a private school for my son. ( I have had a lot of very good advice from Mumsnetters on another thread) .

I was at Whitgift just last week, for my son to do the entrance tests, and can assure you that it is incredibly diverse. Probably the most diverse of the schools I have seen so far. They were also very welcoming. The admissions officer was lovely, taking a lot of time to chat to my son about his interests. ( They like sporty boys).

Every "elite" private school I have seen so far in London has been incredibly diverse. I am told Westminster is 50% Indian or South Asian. Diversity in London really should not worry you. And yes, Whitgift is in South Croydon, not Surrey.

What is worth worrying about is that entry into certain private schools ( especially in sixth form') is incredibly competitive. As I am finding out...

MaggieMcSplash · 15/11/2019 21:21

This is not correct. Have you been to South Croydon where the Whitgift is? It's more South London, it's nothing like Surrey. South Croydon is very multicultural so are Croydon schools, even it's private schools.

MaudBaileysGreenTurban · 15/11/2019 20:51

Whitgift has a very diverse ethnic mix indeed. It's also in the middle of Croydon, which is a multi-cultural outer borough of London; it's not 'Surrey' at all.

Your information may be correct for some of the more rural independent schools, as a pp suggests, but it's completely inaccurate as regards Whitgift. Best of luck to your son.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 15/11/2019 20:41

They are talking tosh.

Ds was one of three kids who spoke English as a mother tongue (the other 2 kids were bilingual) at his prep and i’d say the vast majority of kids where he is now are not white. And he’s mixed race anyway!

Swipe left for the next trending thread