3 year GCSE courses

All our local schools do 3 years - grammars, comprehensive and private schools. One grammar school lets the girls do 11 GCSEs in year 9 and they drop one for year 10 - I think this is a good idea as some subjects children chose like business they don't have any experience in to know if they want to do 3 years of it.

DD took 3 GCSEs early. If she had taken all 10 at the same time she would have had 23 exams (this was in 2016)

Yes of course @Comefromaway
I haven't said that this would work for every child in every school and of course things are very different in the different parts of the UK. (The OP doesn't say where they are though.) I was just answering the OP's question as have others with opinions both for and against the 3 yr course. And then answered people's follow up points.
Some schools in England evidently do adopt the 3 yr course with some success so I hope it's not necessarily disastrous for the OP's DC.

I guess the totals make sense proportionally, 18 exams for 9 subjects vs 27 exams for 14. But DS doing his courses over 3 yrs means their Y11 summers will be similar, 18 for your DD and most likely 17 for my DS as he is thinking of maths A level so will probably decide to do the add maths exam.

I think really we are trying to compare apples and pears. Can you see how the 3 year GCSE system which appears to work well in your Welsh school with modular exams and more flexibility doesn't work so well with completely linear courses that have to be examined at the end of Year 11 within a 4 week time frame (plus the odd music/drama/food assessments in addition to the linear exam for those subjects.)

That is a BIG difference. There are no longer any modular GCSE's in England. Just doing 9 GCSe's my daughter had 18 papers at the end of Year 11.

If your DS is sitting some in year 10, and some are modular then I can see how they can fit that many in.

A typical two year course doing the 1 - 9 GCSEs set by AQA for example would have far less wriggle room. I believe that we don't have modular GCSEs any more in England, but I'm happy to be corrected.

Thought I would add everything up - DS is doing a total of 27 written papers plus other assessments as usual for languages, practicals for sciences, geography fieldwork etc.
He is in Y11 and has done a total of 11 written papers in Y10 or this term, so will have 16 to do in the summer of Y11 plus add maths if he wants as he is in set 2 maths. These numbers will be different though depending on options. Doing a few in Y10 has definitely helped him to get his head around revision and what needs to be done in Y11.

I would have a look at their timetables and tell you number of lessons etc but they have their planners at school with them
They do start in Y9 so perhaps not that surprising with 50% more time available. This is my point really that 3 yr GCSEs do not always mean a dramatic and early narrowing of the curriculum or an easy option, it can be used as a way of keeping the curriculum more diverse to the end of Y11.
With some subjects being modular they can take a couple of papers early which helps with the stress and congestion of Y11 summer exams.
Yes the university admissions thing is definitely not the motivation as a large number of GCSEs doesn't help as you say. I think it's about what the school feels is the best offer for the children. Most people have a couple of subjects they really don't get on with, they give them up at the end of Y8. They are not forced to make the really tricky decisions about what to study until A level.

The exam timetable for 14 GCSE's must be horrific. Even if some Btec's are chosen the coursework workload must add to the stress.

How on earth do they fit 14 subjects into the curriculum?
No university asks for that many GCSEs- not even Oxbridge/vet med/medicine.

This begs the question - are GCSEs set by English exam boards harder? Because I don't believe that all Welsh students are brighter than English students.

Btw, I do agree that 3-year GCSEs can be initiated for negative reasons, but it is so context-specific that I think making general blanket statements about them, as though they are always a bad thing, is actually very silly and blinkered. Ofsted specifically wants schools to think about their actual community and to responsive to that, not to lurch from one strategy to another because of what schools imagine is Ofsted's latest national fad.

Everyone does 14 GCSEs as standard

State secondary school, so non selective

Bottom 3 science sets do double instead of triple science so they would do 13

Those struggling with English language don't do eng lit but nearly everyone does both.

Top 2 maths sets can do add maths if they want so would do 15 in total

We are in Wales so mostly WJEC A*-G with some English boards 1-9. DS for example is doing AQA Economics. Some of the WJEC courses are linear, some are modular.

Depending on subjects they can do a couple of exams in Y10 and they do some or all of maths in Nov of Y11 (last paper today for DS )

They do 10 compulsory GCSEs and 4 options. They can choose any options from a list which includes GCSEs and BTECs. There aren't any restrictions on how they choose the options but they do say they can't guarantee that the courses will run or that everyone's combo will be possible. I haven't heard of anyone not being able to do what they want but I guess it must happen. Some people will choose music, drama and performing arts plus one other (one of DD's friends is doing this). Some will do three languages etc.

They love their performing arts and DT there so strong on that, drama / music / performing arts / engineering double award all available and various design courses. Everyone does Welsh GCSE and there are two MFL options. Everyone does RE GCSE and there are the usual humanities as options. Everyone does PE but not as a GCSE unless chosen as an option. There are also options for those who want more practical qualifications eg vehicle inspection or construction. Everyone does the usual sex education, first aid, personal finance etc. Everyone does Welsh Bacc.

It is quite an aspirational school and they push them to do well. Also very keen on sport (especially rugby ) so lots of sport available after school and music ensembles and drama productions, DofE, eco group, pride etc etc. My DC like it anyway and are enjoying most of their courses DS has always wanted to do something science based so he might have been all right with a narrower range. DD changes her mind all the time about what she wants to do so is happy to have most doors still open to her until the end of Y11.

Tbf, I wasn't initially keen when the school moved to 3-year GCSEs a few years ago, but the reality has actually been very positive for my children and they did not have to compromise on any of their choices. Other parents were also initially dubious, but I never hear anyone question the wisdom of it any more. No GCSE subjects have been dropped, either. The school's curriculum is massively better and broader than what I was offered at school in the 1980s. The school is also more popular with parents and students (and the teachers who work there!) than nearby 2-year GCSE schools, so whilst I am happy for it to continue refining its curriculum enhancement and non-examinable subjects for ensuring children's education is not narrowed excessively, I do not see moving back to 2-year GCSEs as a desirable or necessary move. I would rather the school had the strength of its own convictions.

The narrowing of options , of course, is also popular because of funding cuts and staffing crises : let's not pretend otherwise!

In my school (years 9-13), students do the whole suite of subjects in year 9 and begin GCSE in May of year 9. I am pretty sure music, art, MFL would like this to change but drama, in particular, wants to keep all students going on til year 10.

In DS's school, students make some choices in year 8 to start their new school with fewer subjects. these choices are reasonably broad (eg they have to do an arts or technology subject) but they aren't taught much GCSE material, and do not have to choose those subjects at GCSE. My DS liked this as he was so poor at graphics and art but I do think this impacts some subject's GCSE uptake. The school will not openly say this is all in response to staffing numbers but it obviously is!

My subject is quite an obscure, niche GCSE and if students had to choose back in year 8 whether to take it or not , I am sure unwise choices would be made.

Goodness, my DS chose to do music at the 'normal' end of year 9 time and wishes he hadn't. I can only imagine that issue is more common the earlier decisions are made.

cantkeepawayforever - the musicals, choirs and samba band very much attract children who do not do music outside of school, as does the BTEC music course, for which there is no requirement to learn an instrument outside of school (and I know quite a few kids in my children's years at school who took this as an option with no musical background at home). Those kids are, however, expected to take part in the musical life of the school, thus also boosting numbers. There are also some very talented untrained singers who join up with kids who can play electric guitar, drums or keyboards to form their own bands and use the school's facilities to practice. There is a big range of ability and musical standards involved in music at the school.

As for Ofsted, it was not long before September. I was also involved as a governor in an inspection (albeit in a primary school) shortly before the demise of the old framework, and can tell you that the focus of the inspections had already shifted somewhat with an eye to what was coming. No Ofsted inspector, knowing what the new framework was to be, would specifically comment on the breadth and balance of a curriculum and its responsiveness to children's needs if a few weeks later under the new framework they would have changed their mind.

Did they take all 13 at the end of Year 11? Is it an academically selective school as the workload and sheer number of exams for 9/10 is immense with the new GCSE’s.

I haven't come across that - our local 3 year GCSE course offering school offered 9-10 subjects, with very restrictive options (History or geography, art or drama or music, for example).

13 x 9-1 GCSEs sounds tough! Is that universal for all students - bearing in mind that i am thinking about breadth of education for all?

Hangonamo,

So your children did 13x new 9-1 GCSEs?

For my DC the wider curriculum they get in Y10 and Y11 (compared to a 2yr gcse course) more than makes up for the narrowing of the curriculum a year early in Y9. For them at that age, depth > breadth.

Ofsted specifically praised the school for its broad and balanced curriculum, responsive to the needs of its students

When was the Ofsted done?

The new handbook only came into force in September, so that quotation would ONLY be relevant in the context of this thread if the inspection was from this term.

Walkaround

I am not specifically focusing on your school.

I am making a general point - IN GENERAL, schools which offer 3 year GCSE courses will offer fewer subjects (and thus a less broad curriculum) to students in Y9 in particular than a school which offers 2 year GCSE courses.

This is also the GENERAL point made by Ofsted, hence their new policy.

Of course, in some schools this disadvantage will be offset by extracurricular activities etc etc. However, the GENERAL point - that a 3 year GCSE course focusing on 9-11 subjects means a child in Y9 will be studying a reduced compulsory curriculum compared to a Y9 child in a school with a 3 year KS3 - remains true.

That’s my experience too can’t keep away (I have music degree, dh is a conservatoiretrained music teacher and Ds is heading to music tech at college/degree.

My experience of school musical opportunities - and I have a DS at conservatoire so am a veteran of much school music - is that very little of it actively attracts those children who have had no previous musical experience or lessons.

So the orchestra, wind band, jazz band, string group and brass band all attract those who already play musical instruments (paid for) outside school or in school with paid-for peris, with very limited if any ab initio free of charge instrumental playing / learning for those who have had no lessons (DC's school, in fairness, has an ab initio samba band which offers exactly this opportunity, though for limited instruments, and does teach keyboard throughout KS3 music).

The boys' choirs, chamber choir, general choir and huge school production do attract some untrained singers, but tbh do tend to attract those who have some musical background as many require at least some music reading ability.

It is for that reason that I didn't include them in the 'curriculum offering', in the same way as I don't include other clubs and other sports - they are not universally available to every child of every ability from every background and income group, whereas the KS3 taught curriculum is.

And at the end of year 11,my dses will have 12 GCSEs each and will have continued, courtesy of the school, for free, with drama, music, PE, philosophy, SMSC education, and opportunities to show leadership, collaborative working, project work, etc. As I have already pointed out, Ofsted specifically praised the school for its broad and balanced curriculum, responsive to the needs of its students, so I'm not going to accept your attempts to imply that children are missing out on something massive.