Can anyone prove their parents didn't go to uni?

Abject apologies stanley

I did think it could be taken both ways and I obviously took the wrong way!

@Rufusthebewilderedreindeer it is @titchy who is the expert on this thread, and my ego has nothing to do with her!!!

@whostolemypumpkin, I really don't care anymore, but you have provided other details. I described the content of the book, you described its appearance, publishing date, etc.

I don't think I have much of a place on this forum, despite having real advice to give. Some MNers have got back to me to thank me, I have put up with constant put-downs and slagging -off, but the main thing is that the parents of the students I would really be trying to help just aren't on this site, which is why I think I'd be best off trying to find another way of helping them. MNers on the whole are a whole lot more switched on and "helicoptery" than the parents of the students I used to work with. Many of them really didn't have a clue.
Too many of the threads here are like the medieval argument about how many angels can sit on the head of a pin. As well as the constant "well my dc this, or my ds that, or when I was at school, " which really just fills up the thread with gunk that doesn't help. So many personal anecdotal stuff. Keep up the chatting....!

And as I have discovered sexism is a one way street on here I have challenged this and got nowhere.

I am wasting my time so I am back off to Landyzone where people really help one another, the banter is FUN and the bitching is absent.
Something which is largely not present here in my short experience. Such a shame, but Mars and Venus and all that. Maybe someone will start Dadsnet!

Titchy, Imperial does actually do public lectures aimed at KS4 and KS5. But maybe they're unusual

Not unusual .....lots of uni's do this

Imperial does actually do public lectures aimed at KS4 and KS5

They're not what I meant at all! Anything aimed at school kids is done as part of an agenda to encourage kids to apply to university (not necessarily to that institution interestingly).

@whostolemypumpkin I am very familiar with the range and breadth of summer residentials available (in a previous role I used to plan/manage/run a suite of them, including assigning spaces). I'm just wondering about the ones you mention upthread: 'but I've seen some very oversubscribed subject-specific summer schools, which used to be "first come first served", moving in this direction' - do you mean specific examples of courses changing their entry criteria, or do you mean provision of additional opportunities for people whose parents can't afford £500 for what is effectively a week's childcare/entertainment provision sorted? (yes I do mean childcare because some of these courses are aimed at kids as young as 13)

If it's the latter, then things like Headstart and Smallpeice courses do still exist for fee paying individuals. They are fantastic opportunities, and I do believe young people get a lot out of them. The subsidised WP courses are invaluable for young people (like me actually) who had no experience of university, or really being away from home. These experiences are indirectly linked to me being the first in my immediate family to get on the property ladder also and my ticket into the middle class

You misunderstand what I meant about public lectures. These aren't events aimed at sixth formers. They're events aimed at anyone with an interest in Medieval history, immunology, nuclear fission, Dickens. Academics have some responsibility to the wider community to impart their expert knowledge. A university isn't just about teaching 18 year olds.

As I've said several times, these are broad brush approaches, that don't deter the very people they're designed to encourage by asking for extra evidence. And it works pretty much

Exactly this.

it would be too expensive to do full means testing.

Not to mention a possible GDPR breach. And would you really go up to a pale skinned kid and berate then for ticking the mixed-race box?

However it's easy enough to check a postcode or a school. An entitlement to full maintenance once at university.

As I've said several times, these are broad brush approaches, that don't deter the very people they're designed to encourage by asking for extra evidence. And it works pretty much.

It's fine to be cynical but let's not ignore the wonderful things some wp initiatives have achieved.

That example OP priorities those who hit one or WP criteria!

It's worth noting that not all external stuff universities do is aimed at WP. Public lectures for example are just that - for any member of the public.

I think it's probably fair to say though that anything aimed at sixth formers, which is likely to be oversubscribed, will prioritise those from WP backgrounds.

fox there are a wide range of wp and outreach activities available from the vast majority ( if not all) universities. Some are quite genetic but others target specific underrepresented groups.

I used to be involved in the process of identifying the best beneficiaries for a limited number of Widening Participation opportunities for one university.

Honestly I don't think lying about this would help anyone.

For a start, there was a criteria that could trigger access to WP potential:

• first in family status
• having been in care
• living in one of the most deprived postcodes in the country (we had a list)
• attending one of the schools with the lowest success rates at getting students into university (likewise we had a list)
• assessed household income by student loans company putting you eligible for the highest level of grant
• young carer status
• refugee status

The number of applications where the student met 3 or 4 of these criteria and sometimes even more always overwhelmed the number of opportunities available. They would be ranked by just how many triggers they qualified for, and if possible for the criteria where there could be any kind of scale rather than yes/no that would've used in the ranking. The top 20 in that ranking would be selected. It was heartbreaking to realise just how much the 21st & 22nd etc needed the opportunities too but 20 was the number we could help.

In the event that someone lied about first-in-family status they wouldn't be selected unless there were 2 or 3 other reasons why they should be selected too. It's hardly the case that someone with a privileged background could just lie about this (or even truthfully claim it in the event their parents were successful and affluent without having benefitted from university) and reap the rewards - there will always be plenty of people whose need for this kind of support is much, much higher.

Which summer courses is everyone talking about btw? Is it Headstart, which has traditionally been for rich kids? Or something else?

@oneteen They do. In fact, looked after children are prioritised for all outreach/summer school activities. Have a look at the eligibility criteria for the Sutton Trust summer schools for example. The more criteria you tick the more likely you are to get a place. This includes first gen, FSM, attending a state school with a low progression to HE among others

First in family/first generation has been around for years and years. I went on several summer schools/residentials as a teen for being the first person in my family to apply to university (first out of anyone on my mum’s side, and still only, I think!). Often it has to be paired with other criteria, that are more based on demographics, such as POLAR data for your postcode, or school metrics (usually schools with low participation catchments, often schools that are ‘adding value’ based on pupil achievement at primary and secondary). There are whole datasets available to use in the selection process alongside what you tick in the boxes.

@Oneteen, I totally agree. Actually, the pushiest parent I know is someone whose DC would probably benefit from the not having been to university type of contextual offers, including postcode. She and her DH run their own business, the DC go to tutors for subjects they're behind in, they go to one of the best comprehensives in the country.

I do think it's hard to differentiate between which DC deserves "assistance" and which DC has been given "some" assistance via schooling in some way or another. Oddly enough it seems to be the proactive pushy helicopter parents who get their DC not on one but several of these summer courses...which I suppose is the subject nature of this thread.

Perhaps Summer Courses etc should start in reverse order...and prioritize DC who are on FSM's and have been in care ...maybe look at Progress8 performance...

Is the child from a background where neither parent has been to university (but the family are aspirant and education-focused) really any more disadvantaged than one from a child where both are educated but one or both parents have mental health/dependency issues, or the child where education has been disrupted by repeated moves? Clearly some families would tick every 'disadvantage' box but many children, regardless of socio-economic background, may tick one or two.

The interesting issue is how to be fair. It is something most of us grapple with all the tme even in how we treat our small children, who we hired people at work etc. Most humans have an instinctive need for things to be fair and just. It is the basis of most legal systems.

Going by pure exam results which remains the case for most higher education and most jobs is not a bad tool on the whole paticularly as you don't know if someone had been to a fee paying schol where no one had ever been to Oxbridge (mine - most girls didn't even go to university ) - I didn't try - surely I should have been given masses of contextual credit from NE England compared with someone at a state grammar in the SE which sends 25 girls a year to Oxbridge?
Or the abused child with alcoholic parents in a private school who against all the odds have got high grades through masses of hard work . In other words by all means contextualise and let the school write about the dreadful time that hcild has at home et cetc but perhaps not be too general that every state school is dire and all the private schools are great and for the academic high flyers.