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Original poster

Non(or less)-selective independent secondary school or grammar schools with less applicants?

42 replies

XelaM · 08/10/2019 18:04

Hello, my daughter is currently in Year 5 at a North London prep school and I am now going through the awful 11+ preparation process.

As my daughter is in a highly academic independent school with very ambitious kids (and parents), they are all focused on the highly selective North London grammars and independent schools (where my understanding is the entrance exams are even more challenging!). My daughter is keeping up fine in her insanely pushy school, but is not one of the super-bright academic kids.

She wants to sit most of the grammar and independent school exams (to keep up with her friends who are all discussing schools at the moment) and I got her tutoring to at least give her a fair chance at the tests.

However, given that she is not an academic genius, I realise that her chances of getting into one of the super-selective grammar or independent schools are very slim. Although I am happy to let her sit all the tests she wants, I am already panicking how this amount of (potential) rejection will affect her.

I am therefore looking at schools that are less selective in their intake. Can anyone offer any advice? I have heard Mount House are non-selective and we absolutely loved the school Are there any others anyone could recommend?

I would prefer a co-ed school, but am also open to all-girls schools. I just want the school to be a nice friendly environment for my daughter rather than an awful pressure-cooker.

Any help or advice is much appreciated.

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leeloo1 · 15/06/2020 20:55

@XelaM - I'm curious where you ended up deciding to apply for your dd - and would recommend Palmers Green high school, if you haven't chosen yet?

Did you visit North London Grammar School, Hendon? I'm just wondering if you had and had any insight, as my dc has an offer there but with the lockdown we can't visit the school?

Original poster
XelaM · 10/10/2019 19:46

@Rkjg I will look at Aldenham for sure, although (just like Habs) the commute from Haringey would take forever, but I would consider moving closer to a school she gets into.

At this stage I am less prepared to compromise on the co-ed aspect (unless it's for Henrietta Barnet). Otherwise, City Girls is just 5 minutes from my office and we could commute together. I might re-consider about the co-ed thing closer to the exam dates.

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Rkjg · 10/10/2019 12:33

Aldenham is a lovely school - I had a bit of involvement there a few years ago and looked at it for one of my children (who eventually boarded elsewhere). I think you'd get as good results there as anywhere, without the overpushiness.

Original poster
XelaM · 09/10/2019 18:39

@WombatChocolate Thank you for your very sensible post. I will do my best to take the advice

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Original poster
XelaM · 09/10/2019 18:37

@steppenmum It's not NH, but although I wouldn't recommend my daughter's school for anything other than academics - I must say that the ability to get its kids into top schools is probably its strong point. The Head is very pushy and on the ball when it comes to schools from what I hear. And she is still probably concentrating on her year 6's for now. She was very responsive when I sent over a list of proposed schools for my daughter and there have already been guidance meetings for all year 5 parents (as a group), but the individual meetings with the Head will take place in March 2020. I will try to see if I can set up a meeting beforehand

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WombatChocolate · 09/10/2019 17:10

When she mentions Oxbridge and names highly selective schools she wants to go to and dismisses state schools which don't have an entrance exam, I would nod and smile at her and not take it all as seriously as you seem to be. She is a 10 year old being a bit precocious who knows little of the world. She doesn't know these schools and doesn't know her own ability or what will be possible or best for her. Don't worry that she will be crushed by not passing every school she tries for, or that you can't apply for a school YOU think is right for her and your family, because it will upset her.

Know that when trying for 11+ there is always an element of risk if not getting places and children entering have to face that. You simply cannot protect them from that and actually going through some if that is a learning experience. If she sits an exam and doesn't get an offer, she won't be crushed forever, but move on from it and go to the right school for her. Perhaps you are taking her and her concerns (and perhaps some are really yours rather than hers anyway) a little too seriously and looking to hedge your bets, have the very best options with no risk, and all options open to you......it's just not possible to do this. She either sits the very selective exams and knows she may well not get a place and accepts that, or she doesn't sit them. She doesn't sound like a delicate flower who cannot cope, but like someone who is pretty assertive with her own mother. So I wouldn't worry so much about her feeling disappointed or that not getting an offer must be avoided at all costs...it simply can't be. And again, remember that you are the parent who has the knowledge to make a good decision - a 10 year old just wanting to be with her friends and having ideas that schools without exams aren't worth going to, are really not sensible ideas to entertain too much when choosing schools. You can start guiding her towards more sensible thinking.

malmontar · 09/10/2019 16:40

It is only selective in the sense that they have at most 8 places for y7 and last year about 200 applied for them. They don't let more apply as I'm sure it would be a lot more.

steppenmum · 09/10/2019 16:36

King Alfreds is nothing like a super selective school. It's waaaay down the tables and suits a very arty rather alternative kid. Your prep really should be giving you more guidance. I'm really hoping it's not Norfolk House....

malmontar · 09/10/2019 16:24

King Alfred isn't super selective in the academic sense. It is just a very particular child that goes there and we applied from Haringey too. We didn't go on grounds of transport and other personal reason. It is a nightmare to get to and you're going with the commuters due to their later start. It is a very fun assessment day, DD loved it. Very brief maths and comprehension test and the rest is fun group activities.

Mustbetimeforachange · 09/10/2019 15:50

Royal Masonic is in Rickmansworth! Nowhere near Haringey

Original poster
XelaM · 09/10/2019 15:45

My daughter does amateur theatre and they had a production at the King Alfred Theatre (in the school itself). The school grounds are so pretty, but I woukd rather avoid applying to another super-selective school if at all possible.

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Answerthequestion · 09/10/2019 14:55

Masonic and St Margaret’s bushey are much too far from haringey.

Soma · 09/10/2019 14:50

Hi OP, here are some other schools to add to your list:

*St Margaret's in Bushey co-ed from Sept 2020
*King Alfred School in Hampstead / Golders Green - super selective
*Palmers Green High School 1- 0 minutes by train from Haringey / Hornsey St
*St Margaret's Hampstead - very, very small
*Royal Masonic School

Huffthemagicdragon · 09/10/2019 11:08

ps Forest is lovely, it really is. I think it sounds exactly what you'd like. It's getting harder to get into but I really don't think it sounds like she'll have a problem. I think they especially like kids who are good at English.

We'd have opted for Latymer above the privates too. But was not to be and before you know we've got three children at private school because we felt we couldn't pay for one and not the others...

Huffthemagicdragon · 09/10/2019 11:06

It was hard doing 11+ from a state primary in some ways, but thank god we were spared all the chat among pupils spurred on by parents. Honestly your daughter sounds at least as academic as my three and they've got into all the schools in central-ish/north London, including some considered some of the hardest (Highgate, City, SHHS, UCS etc) and doing a maximum of three exams each (plus the two grammars ds tried). Their primary obviously gave no preparation and they all had just one hour of tutoring a week (tutor did all of it, maths, English, VR, nVR etc) for about 18 months.

I know how anxious it can be and I blamed myself for this - after all none of their friends were putting themselves up for judgment like this. It was worst with my son as he only tried for three v selective schools (obvious N/Central London boys/co-ed choices) as we thought they were the only ones worth paying for rather than the local state. Please don't get sucked into throwing a whole heap into the pot. One of the heads told us how off-putting he found it talking to a child who was trying for 10 schools.

Original poster
XelaM · 09/10/2019 10:59

@steppenmum We are I think just iver 1.5 miles away, so I thought that was too far to get in, but so glad to hear there is movement there.

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Original poster
XelaM · 09/10/2019 10:53

@BertrandRussell Sorry, I think I didn't express that correctly. It's not that she doesn't want to go to a state school - it's the lack of entrance exam that makes her think the local comps are less exciting.

Anyway, we are in no way even remotely close to being upper class or snobby. We are immigrants and live in Hanringey. So hardly high society. Very much middle class

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steppenmum · 09/10/2019 10:46

Oh give it a rest @BertrandRussell. We all know how you feel on this topic. The kid is 10 and simply wants to go where her friends are going and wants to pass the exams she's been preparing for. It's not a crime nor is she making social commentary at age 10. How far from Alexandra Park School are you? The catchment is small but the list has tons of movement as a lot of parents in that catchment go private but don't give up the place until they've paid the private school deposit. The last distance offered is based on the first round of offers not the furthest distance of the last place offered.

marytuda · 09/10/2019 10:40

Quite, Bertrand. Segregation/selection snobbery starts v young, and it is what has lead this country to the sh*thole it inhabits today.
NB This child's favourite, Henrietta Barnet, correct me if I'm wrong ladies, is actually a super-super-selective state grammar school.

Original poster
XelaM · 09/10/2019 10:38

@Huffthemagicdragon Forgot to add that my daughter's best friend is absolutely obsessed with Forest and that's where she wants to go. We haven't seen it yet, but I have heard it's lovely.

In an ideal world I would of course prefer to stip paying private school fees and woukd definitely take up a place at a school like Latymer over the independent schools. I tried to not get my daughter to fixated on Latymer or HBS because of the insane competition for those places.

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Original poster
XelaM · 09/10/2019 10:30

Oops, sorry for all the typos. Typing on my phone

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Original poster
XelaM · 09/10/2019 10:28

@FanDabbyFloozy I did mean Mill Hill County HS - the state school. The only reason I looked at it at was because one if the tutors we have claimed that all her kids had got in on the technical exam. I didn't like it at all though and like you say - the journey is not even worth it. I will look at the independent Mill Hill schools.

@Huffthemagicdragon Having come from a completely different schook system (Germany) I only have the parents of older siblings in my daughter's school to go by; and mist of them tell of the horrors of the exams that require years of tutoring!

So it's difficult for me to judge my daughter's chances. However, although she is in the top set for English (I don't know why) and the second set from the top for maths (she will be moved up this term I think as she's actually quite good at maths) - she has never been even close to being top of her class. But there are many very academic kids to whom it all comes easy. She's definitely not one of those, but she is very ambitious and has aspirations of Oxbridge even at this age (which i don't encourage!) because my younger brother recently graduated from there and is now doing a post-grad in Harvard. She really has it set in her head that this is where she wants to go and I would hate for her confidence to be completely crushed by all the rejections at the 11+ stage.

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BertrandRussell · 09/10/2019 10:14

Your dd is 10 and is refusing to look at state schools? Wow.

Huffthemagicdragon · 09/10/2019 09:54

Unless you're being disingenuous about your dd's abilities, I think you're being pessimistic. If she's keeping up at a pushy academic prep school then I suspect she'll be fine anywhere but the very most academic secondary.

One of my children was near the top but not top of a very very mixed primary (think v high SEN and lots of kids on child protection register) and was very reluctant to even do 11+ i.e. did no work. She got in to the four N London schools she applied for and with a scholarship to Forest (is that too far? It's lovely and co-ed-ish). Her sister applied to one of the schools on your 'impossible' list and got in - again state school but with an August birthday. Top-ish of the class but I'm sure would be middling in a prep school.

Having said that I wouldn't bother with the state grammars unless she's got a reasonable chance and that you'd definitely take the place over a private. We did them with my eldest on a whim and despite the lack of preparation, his confidence really took a knock when he failed by a long way (then subsequently got into v selective privates). They just ruin the summer holidays and then you've got Christmas ruined if you subsequently do privates.

You may also have to compromise on the co-ed thing as there are loads more girls' schools.

FanDabbyFloozy · 09/10/2019 08:52

@XelaM are you sure you mean Mill Hill County (state school with very limited selective places) or Mill Hill schools (Inc Belmont), the independent schools?

The MH County exam is not as demanding as say HBS but in some ways that is worse as the standard is very high (high 130s). It also has music and dance spots but largely it is a non-selective school. I wouldn't travel from the Heartlands area (presuming where you are) for it frankly. The journey would be a nightmare for a start and most kids are local.

Belmont/Mill Hill schools are good independent options with wide coach routes. It is not very hard to gain a place despite the small number of places and many say it is a fine school indeed.

You could always try for a state option and switch to a school like Mill Hill at 13+ if that doesn't work out?