Advice needed - maths sets

I too would keep the tutor if they are helping with his confidence in maths and your ds feels it is not too tiring.
This is one of the most tiring terms. There are big changes and so many more people. Fitting in socially is something that he will be working hard on every day at school and it is exhausting for every child in the first term of year 7. Just for this term, let the academic things be and support him; make sure he gets plenty of time to relax at home and gets plenty of sleep.
In the new year you could try slowly introducing more maths. The more he practises, the better he will get. Go to Waterstones or Smiths and look at the CGP or Letts revision guides and workbooks for his age group and let him pick which he likes best. These follow the curriculum and you can work through them at home.
You could also try broadening his maths ability by looking at the UKMT junior maths challenges or the nrich website. These will help him with problem solving in maths, rather than just learning the curriculum.

He was tending to work things out in his head rather than write down the formula. She makes him do this

That's what I need to be able to get DS to do! I am a mathematician, but I suffer from also being mum, therefore the old fuddy duddy you don't listen to about correct techniques for doing things! (Same problem with music practice - I can spend all week saying "try this" and get ignored, only to have the teacher say exactly the same thing in lessons.)

I think tutors can be really helpful for breaking through that parent-child dynamic.

Very similar scenario as my Ds in Y7.

I decided that Ds would benefit from having a tutor. Ds moved up a set in Y7, although the set he moved up to, the teacher wasn’t great. Tutor even commented on lack of books coming home, homework not being set, no marking in the books. For me the tutor has been invaluable.

Ds is now in Y8, still in the new set but with different teachers, much better, much more positive feedback. Ds is loving maths again and I can see the difference.

The tutor has helped 100%. I really don’t think Y7 was too early to benefit from having a tutor. In our case she helped Ds lots. He was tending to work things out in his head rather than write down the formula. She makes him do this. She also helps with homework if needed, something I just can’t do sometimes as I’m no mathematician and I fear telling him the wrong way of doing things. Easy to say don’t have a tutor if you’re confident you can teach your child well at home but this isn’t the case in our house.

Tutor is like a booster lesson, 45 mins a week. Enough time to iron out the creases, especially handy during the weaker teaching part way through Y7.

Corbett Maths 5 a day, foundation stage was recommended to us during the summer holidays. What I love about this site is that the answers are posted too, so I can print these off in advance and go through them before Ds. It’s just another little add on.

I’d personally stick with the tutor and I’m sure you will see improvement.

This is such a helpful thread, OP. Thanks for starting it.

In our house it's DS trying to push the agenda - complaining that he's finishing five minutes before his classmates (I suspect this may be an exaggeration) and asking me to talk to the teacher about moving sets. I keep saying "they'll have done it based on your cats, the thing to do is work hard and make sure you try the optional sections of the homework every week to show you can move up."

Glad to see from teachers that this is the right approach.

I think it's an interesting point as to how schools (and parents) encourage DC to look at how they are performing themselves and not to compare with those around them.

My colleague's daughter goes to a grammar (25% of ability range selective). She's spent Y7-Y11 thinking she was rubbish at maths because she was in the bottom set. She then got an 8 at GCSE, realised that she might not be so bad at maths after all and opted to take it for A level. She's now feeling bad at maths again because she's in an A Level group where everyone else got 9s and has begged her mum for extra tutoring. I suspect she'll end up with a great A level grade, but is this really the best way for her to get there? I know some will say that's the point of selective/high performing schools - that you're surrounded by other bright children and so are encouraged to work to the very best of your potential. Clearly these schools produce good grades, but at what cost to DC's mental health/self confidence etc?

Ah right. I see what you mean. I wasn't sure if he was feeling down about his set because he got a higher SATs score.

Hmm. That's a tricky one.

I suppose the good thing about secondary school is there's lots of lovely average kids. Hopefully as he settles in he'll realise that.

Often there's loads of clubs that students can try that aren't focused on competition and can be done for interest. That might be an angle to consider to see if he can find his tribe.

Merry My DD2 really isn't great at anything. We have had to work really hard to help her self esteem at times. We kind of go with 'yes some people find things naturally easier than you, but we are really proud at how hard you try and look at what you can do now compared with last year'. So we celebrate success at her level and try to discourage her from comparing with friends/peers.

OP, at a decent school the set shouldn't limit their maths. The only limiting is the ones they set on themselves. DD1 moved up sets every year in Secondary (even from y10 to y11).

Lola, that really would not be helpful with my son. He's always felt like a tiny fish. He sees himself as a tiny fish. When he (rarely) gets any recognition he laps it up. It's soul destroying (literally!) how focused schools can be on academic achievement. I only want that for his self esteem to be ok! He doesn't excel in sport, music or socially. He's average really, and I'd love him to feel ok with that but we seem to want to be at the top at something. Even on Mumsnet people always say 'but is he great at blah blah blah....'?

You're doing really well. Keep the tutor then, but also work on this idea he seems to have about switching off and being lazy if he doesn't like the set as that will be his biggest barrier at secondary.

A useful angle when talking to kids about it is little fish in a big pond. Just because they always had the lead in primary productions, doesn't mean they'll stand out as remarkable in a y7-11 audition round. Just because they got a middle to high SATs for their primary and was on top table, doesn't make them super able in a rank list of 200-250 year 7s. If there's 11 places on the team and 15 feeder primaries then having been on the A team at KS2 doesn't make them automatically string enough for the A team at secondary.
It's quite a nice metaphor to use to get them realising that their size as a fish hasn't changed, their talents haven't changed but instead of a garden pond they're in the ocean.

If hes happy having a tutor keep it up.
I find my kids love ixl you can track progress and they love getting the certificates and sticker prizes online.
My 3 do it over the summer to keep their maths up.

CATS can either be done yearly, or just in y7. Often they are done in y7 because they give a better indicator of overall understanding etc than SATs. A child doing well in a test they've been drilled in the question format for and hothoused for doesn't automatically translate to academic aptitude in a subject (eg. I've had students come in with 113 on KS2 English, but not be able to make inferences and can't use half the expected standard punctuation independently).

Redsky's school works like mine.

I think you've got to be less hung up on tests and more focused on developing his mathematical ability. Even the focus on the test has an undertone of 'so he can be in the class with the number where I think he should be'.

Some tutors are good at developing mathematical thinking and reasoning in a holistic sense, others will work through different topics. You can ask for the order of topics, but be prepared that a tutor and the school may have different approaches.

Like redsky, we use a mixture of classwork, teacher observations and assessment when it comes to choosing sets so if we have 1 place to move up and two students who could probably manage the move, the one who isn't lazy would get the move as experience says they're probably better equipped and resilient enough to manage the move.

Sounds a lot like my Ds, OP, who is now in y9. He was in set 3/6 (they are set across the year group) and then moved down to set 4 in December. DH worked really hard with him and in end of y7 he did really well, moved up to set 3. End of y8 he got more than 80 per cent which was top of the set but not enough to move up. He's still set 3 but he's doing ok. He's set 4 for English. He lacks confidence massively too. I'm dreading when his little brother comes up next year and is set 1. Currently Ds is feeling ok where he is...

Not sure what to advise except just keep up the enthusiasm with Maths and hopefully if he does well in tests. I'd definitely tutor. I'm quite against it usually but I think a good tutor will boost his confidence, sense of achievement in doing harder stuff and keep him at the very top of set 3 so he has a chance to move back into set 2.

My DC only took CATS at the start of Year 7; I don't think they are a yearly thing.

Does your DC's school use myMaths or any of the similar online resources? That would be good to supplement whatever he is doing at school (particularly if there is no homework).

CATs may well never be done again.

My DC's school operates the same way as Teen describes in KS3. All the sets work on the same topics at the same time and they all have the same test at the end of each unit (so they have to cover the same material). It'll be these tests that determines (along with teacher observation) whether they are in the correct set.

Different schools will have totally different schemes of work. One school might start with number, another with data, another with shape etc. No two schools will be teaching in the same order unless they are part of a MAT with the same scheme of work.

Sorry, I think I misread your question there. I thought you were asking about classes within a school teaching KS3 in the same order.

School to school there will be variation of topic orders as schools will make their own curriculum choices.

I wouldn't say I know enough about maths curriculum choices to be sure, but I would imagine so. The main reason for variation in my subject (English) is due to not having whole cohorts of texts so rotation is sometimes done.

In maths, with the exception of a nurture group class (who I would expect to have a different format due to very weak literacy/numeracy), I'd expect the topics to be the same for the term but with some flexibility in how much time is allocated to each one (eg a lower set may not need as long on shape topics, but may need an extra week to get algebra or circle theories)

Our school teaches different sets different content. They'll broadly be doing the same topic at the same time but set 4 does basics while set 1 will do challenging stuff. Eg set 4 multiply single and double digit numbers whilst set 1 get on to decimals.

Do all schools teach the ks3 curriculum in the same order?
Short answer is no.