In Defence of Private Schools

So, focus on the state system for a moment - how would you improve it? What would it look like, ideally, in your view? How could it be achieved, and do you believe it could ever truly be fair and provide all children with the means to reach their potential? All children - with the various needs and abilities & potentials? How far would political will go, or is it, as I suspect, just a route to get everyone to a standard level?

Hate to say it, but nitpicking isn't an argument. I never suggested that the behaviour in independents is always exemplary, but there is an expectation of a standard, and that standard is generally maintained, certainly close to (on the way to ) and within the school. The students are not perfect - they are teens - but they are a bloody nice lot, on the whole (in our school). And, no, porn is not the norm on phones anywhere near school, God forbid within school. Phone use is generally banned within school apart from few exceptions. There is makeup and poor behaviour sometimes - of course - what planet are you on? But it is rare. Out of my daughter’s year there is one girl who wears makeup to school. There is no feeling that the others have to do likewise or to conform to any other behaviour.
Bertrand - you seem to keep changing tack.

Of course behaviour is better! It always is in selective schools.

And the complete inability to see that behaviour really is better is what keeps state schools in the position that they are in.

I am a leftie and I think it's ridiculous, unlawful, not enforceable and downright wrong.

There's better ways to level the playing field.

To coin a phrase, “Easily”!

“No, but they are both much rarer than in the state sector“
How can you possibly say that?

A lot of private schools do an excellent job and provide a brilliant experience, obviously.

It’s extraordinary how rose tinted the spectacles of some private school supporters are. No bullying, no make up, no porn, no sexting, no drugs, no alcohol....

No, but they are both much rarer than in the state sector and likely to meet with harsh and rapid consequences, including expulsion.

It’s extraordinary how rose tinted the spectacles of some private school supporters are. No bullying, no make up, no porn, no sexting, no drugs, no alcohol....

DoubleTweenQueen I'm not sure about academic achievement but the behaviour you think is the sole preserve of state school children has been fully embraced by private school pupils round my way.

I don't think girls wearing makeup is exclusive to state schools either!

So private school kids don’t watch porn on their phones? Right......

Our single option state - kids watching porn on their phones going into school, propositioning younger students openly, swearing, girls feeling pressured to wear makeup and conform to a type from day 1 absolutely.

My overall impression with this thread, is most people are agreeing that there is a hell of a lot wrong with the state system as it is currently. It is absolutely not fair that some kids get to get a better education than others - whether that be because of variation within the state system or opportunity to go independent. The key message for me is that the state system needs radically overhauling and improving. That would take a massive political will and a shedload or two of cash. Where will that come from? Abolishing the independent sector won’t achieve that. It’s a political red-herring.

Morning all! What have I missed?

Oh yes - right then,
Achievement - yes it is absolutely about achievement, but of potential, not necessarily academic. It’s about breadth of experience and curriculum, engagement, developing as an individual. The state system used to offer vocational qualifications and technical colleges for vocational options better suited to quite a lot of the population. Now the Gvmnt have decided everyone has to fit through the same academic focus - 'sausages forced through to provide good employees/taxpayers’. That’s the limit of the ambition for the state system. If that doesn’t change there will always be demand for independent education.

Grammars - selection is a fantastic way of taking a group of similar students, navigating their way through a subject at an appropriate pace. No-one gets bored or left behind. Learning can be to a deeper and more meaningful level. I would prefer to see streaming on many subject levels (some are better at STEM, some languages, some art & creative etc) in a truly comprehensive system (single schools), but this would take large schools and mucho teaching staff so a much better level of funding than state has presently - but if this was possible, happy days.

Independent schools don’t just have ‘extras’ compared to the states around here - they are able to provide the basics that states are more constrained to provide, like streaming and subject teachers who are educated in their subjects, plus extras on top of that.

Behaviour - absolutely. Our single option state - kids watching porn on their phones going into school, propositioning younger students openly, swearing, girls feeling pressured to wear makeup and conform to a type from day 1. Our school - all bright and self-motivated students to whom learning is cool; individuality in school is supported and encouraged. Respect and trust between teachers & students. Behaviour dealt with using merits/demerits/the odd detention if serious. No isolation or zero tolerance. The students feel valued and trusted as a result. Respect between the sexes is evident and encouraged. The whole ethos is just completely different. Streaming on a few levels from the early part of yr7. Selection means they can take the students into higher level learning from day 1; streaming allows the super maths & physics brains to take off.

And our schools are roughly £15-18k per year, without boarding. £1million+ goes to bursaries.

“Yes, extras that benefit the children who go there. They benefit them. They benefit them just as much as they'd benefit any other child“
The point is that most private school children will get those benefits anyway. All I am saying is that they are going to the children who will benefit from them least.

You could add lacrosse and history of art a level to our local state school and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

It's the behaviour which is better bertrand. The fact that the schools can discipline properly and expel students. The classes aren't disruptive.

Even the much touted Finnish model started going downhill when they stopped teaching in a more old fashioned way.

Yes, extras that benefit the children who go there. They benefit them. They benefit them just as much as they'd benefit any other child. More probably, having seen the attitude towards sport and music from some of the kids at state school (and their parents).

Because what the private schools have for that state schools don’t is money for extras.

Ok, must have got that wrong. In that case, why not learn from the private school experience and campaign for more state schools to replicate it?

“You are usually telling us all that state schools are as good if not better than independent education, so not sure what's changed your mind?”
No i’m not.

Sorry that was to bernard

@Trewser I don't think I've commented before on private schools so not sure why you're saying I have