In Defence of Private Schools

Incidentally I am no great fan of either the grammar or the independent system - but I think the only way to get rid of them without scoring a massive own goal to the country is to improve the comprehensive sector across the board to the extent that they become effectively obsolete. But that would take a level of financial input that British taxpayers would simply refuse to tolerate. So I really can't see a solution.

'it seems entirely appropriate for a comprehensive school to have a focus on what low and middle ability children need to progress'. And this is why lots of parents still gravitate towards grammar or private schools. Yes, of course we need lower ability children to do well - but we do also need to stretch and challenge the high achieving. If we don't strive for real excellence, then where are our future super-scientists, engineers, philosophers and musicians going to come from? It's not more important than getting struggling children to achieve 6 GCSEs - but it's arguably not less important either. As a personal example, my son is set on doing languages - they fascinate him, and I can see him going on to be a linguist or translator or something. If we hadn't gone down either the grammar or independent route, then the other state option would only have given him the option of either French or Spanish during his time at school (not both), and last year they only had a total of 3 children taking a language at A level, and weren't sure whether it would continue as an option.

This is beside the point but in my very limited experience I would not rate teaching in private schools over and above those of the state sector. My school was a top London girl's day school and looking back some of the teaching was abysmal! No effort put in to stimulate us, just dictation (this was the 90s).

The reason the vast majority of us got decent grades was because our parents expected it and we expected it of ourselves. So we learnt the material by rote and regurgitated it in exams. That is why university was a shock to many and why state school
pupils often do better at university.

I agree with Labour and would like to see Private schools lose their special charitable tax loopholes and in contrast, have significantly more money pumped into the State system.

All children deserve a decent education and I'm fed up with children from wealthy parents getting preferential treatment throughout their lives just because of the school they attended. That's a major failing in this country.

In the news today, posh white kids escaping a jail term for battering someone because they managed to keep off the coke for 2 weeks prior to the court hearing. Had they been black from a council estate, they'd be given jail time.

And now that the government expects all kids to jump through the GCSE hoop, however inappropriate it is for them, it seems entirely appropriate for a comprehensive school to have a focus on what low and middle ability children need to progress. I’m presuming that they still have top sets and that statement does not apply to them? But, as I said, a consistently unhappy child should be moved.

I don’t support doing loads of GCSEs- and neither do a lot of private and grammar schools, so for me that wouldn’t be a reason not to chose a school. But obviously you should move an unhappy child.

The state school we moved dd from actually has a wider range of gcse and btec subjects than the private school! They do 3 year gcses and encourage lots, eg dds friend is studying for 12 gcses and btecs including sport and media studies, mainly because then you get more sports lessons . Dd will do 9 probably but sport is on the curriculum up to year 13 and year 9 is for breadth, music, art, dt, cooking, drama etc.

There is definitely a shift to 3 year gcses. Which does narrow the curriculum a year early. My sons school also does 8 gcses not the 9 or 10 which i was offered. So again less breadth. Then, timetabling means certain obvious combinations cant happen. I feel quite sad how narrow the curriculumn gets. Aged just 12 my son will never have another art, music geography etc lesson again. (He is young in his year group)

Oh yes. In black & white and digital forms on the school website. They are an Academy Trust now. This is what’s happening, Bertrand. They don’t only do 5 or 6 - there are six core subjects plus up to three options with that, so max of 8-9 GCSEs studied in stead of 9-10, but this is so they can stretch their resources to ensure all students get a decent batch of 5-6 passes - starting GCSE study in year 9 also, rather than focussing on yrs 10&11 alone. I hope you can forgive me then, for sending my very bright daughter elsewhere, independent or otherwise? This was the only state provision available to us and the attitude and focus goes against how we feel about education. With funding and student numbers as they are in our area, we felt the situation could only go one way.

“they could focus effort on getting 5 or six good GCSEs for all students as that is what they need to get to the next stage”
Are you absolutely sure about this? Because a school doing this is going against education policy and will indubitably fail an OFSTED inspection. A brave decision for a head teacher and governing body to make.....

There is too much Private vs state here - that is way to generalising. There is great variation in both sectors. Most parents I know and discuss these things with - both sectors - went round to most schools available to them - for us, pretty much one - or two, if you were feeling lucky (although very few went to look at the Independents) and found differences in those schools.
Those that were looking at both sectors went for the school they thought would be the best fit for their child. It was more a school vs school, cost, logistics, friendships thing.

By a Standard level, I mean just enough GCSEs to get to the next level - to tick the box. To get everyone up to at least Maths & English GCSEs. To stay in some sort of ed until 18. So young people are employable. Our catchment school openly stated in the Spring just before we decided which way to go, after school offers, that they were taking away choice for GCSEs - reducing choice of options to go with the core subjects, so that ’they could focus effort on getting 5 or six good GCSEs for all students as that is what they need to get to the next stage’. That was the nail in the coffin, decision-wise for us. That’s not providing a good broad education, that’s just fulfilling the process to it’s minimum requirement.

People will rely on personal experience, as that is what they experience and is therefore truth to them. There is likely as much variation in independent schools as state schools. Our either/or options are polar opposites. I imagine if you live in catchment for a good state school, you would be happy with that, as would I if it were available to us. Beware the rumour mill - it’s often outdated and wrong.

Also, most parents would defend their school - it is a natural thing as we want to trust that we have made the right decision for our children’s future - and none of us have a crystal ball.

And -Boom- Bertrand - you live in a selective area? And how is that? Does it work well? Are there many independent schools thriving in your area? Did your DCs go to the comp or selective schools? Is that currently?

Tax should be increased across the board imo.

“Backed up by anecdote..hilarious.”
As, for example.
Poster “Private schools deal with bullying in a prompt and robust manner”
Me “Well [ancedote] shows that in these two well known private schools they don’t”
Obviously not data. But shows that previous blanket statement is not true.

What would I do? Well, in an I ideal world, I would make a condition of becoming an MP that you were not allowed to use private education or health care. In the real world, I would either remove charitable status from or apply VAT to private schools, and also increase the top rate of income tax by 5%. This would provide more money for education. Not being an educationalist, I don’t know what the best things to do to improve the state system would be- so I would establish a commission to find out and go from there.
I don’t know about OFSTED. I certainly wouldn’t abolish it, but I do think it needs reform. The format of inspections is, in my opinion, too rigid. But living I a wholly selective area and as the governor of a High School, I would say that wouldn’t I!

“a few weeks into her new school and she's like a different child”

I’m very pleased.

Backed up by anecdote..hilarious..

“When asked how you could possibly know that, especially since the private school would have been a far more conducive atmosphere for achievement, you replied “Easily”

@CendrillonSings - I know because my ds’s GCSE results were very good indeed. Excellent, in fact.

I don’t make factual statements that I can’t back up by anecdote or data.

Oh my god, are you joking? You have literally said that your child’s results would have been exactly the same in a good private school as in the (by MN standards) “failing” state school they attended. When asked how you could possibly know that, especially since the private school would have been a far more conducive atmosphere for achievement, you replied “Easily”.

Do you even bother to read your own posts?

It was our only choice for state school, it's rated good, results are pretty good. I hoped dd would stay there for obvious financial reasons but a few weeks into her new school and she's like a different child.

That sounds like a horrible environment. It doesn’t match my children’s experience in state schools- although there were obviously groups within the schools who behaved like that. Just not their in their particular peer groups. Interestingly- and once again anecdotally- the private school boys and the state school girls in our area are inclined to be more sexually active and confident than the state school boys and private school girls. Not particularly relevant- but interesting none the less.

Dd was delighted to step off the appearance treadmill.

Porn on phones literally does not happen, or if it has ever happened noone knows about it. No-one is waving their phone around showing off porn, totally blatant because they know nothing will happen. Phone confiscated? Parent rings up giving the school a mouthful, threatening to sue. Constant moaning and whinging about having to play sport, obsession with their phones and social media. Nothing to do at lunchtime because its 45 mins long and there are no sports clubs, so the girls sit on their phones judging everyone. God I dont miss it and not does dd.

“In fairness, Bertrand, you are constantly posting about what goes on in private schools despite the fact your dc went to state schools.”

I don’t make factual statements that I can’t back up by anecdote or data. @CendrillonSings said categorically that certain behaviours happen less in private schools than state schools, and I simply asked how she knew. For all I know, she’s got reams of data.

“s it, as I suspect, just a route to get everyone to a standard level?”

What do you mean by “a standard level”?

No, but they are both much rarer than in the state sector“
How can you possibly say that?

In fairness, Bertrand, you are constantly posting about what goes on in private schools despite the fact your dc went to state schools.