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Original poster

Help: Would you move a reluctant 16 yr old from India to the UK for A levels?IB diploma

64 replies

BetteDavisthighs · 11/09/2019 12:22

Hi, I posted this in Living Overseas but am also posting it here.

Hello. I am new here and looking for help with a v difficult situation. Pl be gentle! Sorry, this will be long but I am trying not to drip feed.I am a life-long expat and trailing spouse of Indian origin. Moved around a lot when kids younger, now back in Mumbai, India ( my hometown) for the last 6 years. My husband just got word that his job here has been eliminated. He has been offered a new job in London, but not on an expat package as previously. ( his employer is phasing out expat packages), so no school and rent covered. He is 50 and there are v few jobs in his industry, so not much negotiation possible.

DS is 15, and in Grade 10 of the IGCSE and doing v well at an academic IB school which sends most of the class to Ivy Leagues/Russell Group unis overseas. I assumed he would move with us after finishing out Grade 10 here, but he has surprised me by announcing that he does not want to move for the next 3 years. His suggestion: he asks my mom to move in with him and he finishes out his entire education in India. ( he's not keen on boarding school) For reference, he is v close to my mom who is in good health, and extremely savvy in all things to do with teens. ( not the typical Indian mom). He also suggests that I go back and forth between London and Mumbai, spending 6 months in each so he gets some supervision and help.

I have lived in the UK before and love it, and am so excited to return, even to Brexit Britain. But
have been told by British friends that it is extremely difficult to move kids at age 16. Also, I am told that he will not be able to adapt to state school, so I will have to fork out a ridiculous sum for private schools. I am open to him moving to A levels ( considering Southbank and the usual trio of Kings, St Paul's and City of London Boys). We can just about afford it as it's only for two years, and we have considerable savings and rental income. It might be worth it to keep the family together. But I am worried that he will take so long to adapt that he might mess up his A levels or the IBDP, and then his college chances will be blighted. At the same time, i think it's such a good opportunity for him to travel. But I guess he is no longer an expat child and is now more Indian than expat.

What would you do? I fear either option is going to end up a big mess. DH thinks moving kids at age 16 to a v different country is too tough to contemplate, I think he should suck it up ( but am not sure).

OP posts:
BubblesBuddy · 14/10/2019 11:03

Also, London school entry is ultra competitive. Why not go a little less competative and go further out of London? If he could board, he would find his niche at Harrow too.

BubblesBuddy · 14/10/2019 11:01

Bancroft would be an excellent choice! Essex would suit your DHs commute too. You should consider it. It is academic! Sometimes it’s not healthy to be around 100% genius DC all the time! You could look at Haileybury too!

Original poster
BetteDavisthighs · 14/10/2019 10:46

Thanks, Cake, that is a v helpful response. Agree about the co-ed school competition, but DS was also keen on co-eds as it is what he is used to. He's not a v boy's boy, though he is sporty. Where did your DD go in the end?

Regarding KCS it is definitely a long shot but DS did the sample Math paper on the website and found it doable ( prob v outdated though?). I have friends with kids at SPG and Westminster, and without wishing to offend anyone, did think their kids seem rather stressed, despite achieving 11 A* at GCSE. In any case, no point thinking about these schools now.

Thanks also for the Whitgift statistic; I was confused by their stats as I think most boys do IB and I could not see them on the league tables. I think I will apply for either Whitgift or Ibstock then. Whitgift seems truly diverse, which appeals to me.

My main problem , which is why I have had such a hard time choosing, is that academic in one country does not mean anything in another. As does sporty. Hence the confusion.

OP posts:
cakeisalwaystheanswer · 14/10/2019 10:08

Competition for 6th form places at KCS is ridiculous, DD knows a number of girls who got straight 9s at GCSEs but were not offered places. Places are allocated according to performance in the Nov exam and interview and I think there are just too many very bright girls applying for them all to get places. DD sat more subjects and has better results than your DS's predicted but we never considered KCS for her. DS1 was at KCS and the 6th formers joing are all incredibly bright which is why KCS A level/IB results often surpass St Pauls/Westminster which you are avoiding for being too academic!

I know nothing of the other top three but if they are co-ed or boys schools allowing girls to join in 6th form it will be very competitive as lots of very bright girls leave single sex schools for A levels. Your bottom 3 have the following results for A levels last year which are the only results relevant to your search:

Whitgift 64% A/A 93% A-B
Bancrofts 67 A/A 86 A-B
Ibstock 61 A/A 88% A*-B

If those results aren't sufficiently academic for you then you are kidding yourself about avoiding super selective schools and you need to put Westminster and St Pauls back on your list, but prepare for disappointment. I have never heard anyone accuse Bancrofts of not being sufficiently academic.

Original poster
BetteDavisthighs · 14/10/2019 08:57

Hi again,

I am afraid I am back to ask for some more help. Things have moved on. My son is now more inclined to move and has agreed to visit London, and do some school tests and interviews in November, plus have a look see. My question now is: how many schools do I need to apply for? Will only 4 do?

It's been impossibly complicated to narrow down schools, given so many dates clash and we can't be in London too long. But after talking to him at length we chose 5 schools. My son was firm that he did not want a super academic school. So for better or worse we did not apply to Westminster or St Pauls. In his last exams, he got 7 A and 2 As, but SPG asks for 8 A and I am not sure he will get that, which makes unconditional offers v stressful. We have registered for the following schools:
City of London Boys
KCS
Highgate
UCL
Registered for Latymer but they would not take our application for a v odd reason: we have not yet got our Tier 2 visas which are still in process. I tried arguing, but they were firm that we need to have a right to stay in the UK right now, and not when he enters in 2020.

Latymer declined our application so late that I have missed the deadlines at Merchant Taylors and several others. The Alleyns interview date does not work for us. I am now considering Ibstock, Whitgift and Bancrofts. Though none of them seem sufficiently academic to me?

I have been told 4 schools are enough for a 6 to 7 A* student, but I am not sure. Any advice?

OP posts:
Darbs76 · 16/09/2019 20:24

Hi,

My son is 15 and just started year 11. No I don’t think I’d move him at this age. Not unless I really didn’t have any other options. Sounds like your mum taking care of him would work. I let my almost 17yr move back to where we had lived when he was younger for A levels and in with my parents. He was almost an adult then and able to make decisions. I’d have rather he didn’t but it was a difficult situation.

So I’d be inclined to let him stay in India

gabster33 · 15/09/2019 20:07

For home status for university- not pay international fees you need to be here 3 years.

Tweennightmare · 14/09/2019 19:57

We moved our DD at 16 (from the Middle East) for sixth form . She has just gone into year 13 and it has been a great decision. She was initially not on board but unlike your DS there was no other choice as my DH job relocated back to UK which probably made settling easier. We let her choose where she went for sixth form (she chose a private day school) so she had some control over the decision making and it helped quite a few of her friends also moved back to the UK at this time. One great thing about being back in the UK has been making future university decisions we are just back from an open day today and it has been great being able to make a fully informed decision instead of trying to do it remotely or trying to squeeze uni visits into a quick week visit back to the UK. Also my DD now has a base of friends in our home town which will help her not feel lonely during uni holidays etc.

noodlenosefraggle · 14/09/2019 18:24

Would you consider not moving with your husband and going on long visits to the UK in the holidays etc? Only on the basis that he doesn't really want to move? Also, how easy would it be to get to a US university from the UK if he wanted to go? My family are also from Mumbai and I got the impression that US universities are trawling India for students. My cousins were offered 10 year visas to go to live in Canada from Mumbai. They have settled there and are very happy. My comments are based on my completely anecdotal evidence, however and the completely emotional thought that Id want my children to be somewhere other than stuck in Brexit Britain given the choice.

ittakes2 · 14/09/2019 17:38

I wouldn't move him - yes technically he can move and others do - but he doesn't want to. Also, other people have said that they know other children who moved and were happy...but children are all different just like adults are - there will be some happy children and some unhappy children. He's not just changing schools - he's changing countries and leaving his grandmother who he is close to. Sounds like your hubby might be busy establishing himself in his new role...moving your son is for you - and while that is how I would also feel - I think you need to take your son's opinion into account. A child that does not want to move is going to be a tricky child. My mother tried to move my sister to another part of the country (5 hour flight away) when she was younger, 13/14 years old - almost broke the family apart as my sister rebelled and it put pressure on everyone for years. Things in the family were never the same.

physicskate · 14/09/2019 17:10

@solittletime - as he does not hold settled status (and been present in the uk for three years by the time he starts uni), he would be subject to international student fees... so that's not a consideration here.

pikapikachu · 14/09/2019 14:30

16 is a common age to move. My parents were expats and I came back to a UK Sixth Form and I'd estimated that 25-30% were new to the school. It's hard for the child socially- making new friends etc but the academics should be fine.

My daughter goes to a state school and started Sixth Form this week and 30% of people were new.

There's obviously a risk with exams especially as your son might fail them on purpose to avoid going. It might be worth finding out from your target schools what percentage are new for Sixth Form to reassure him.

Have you thought about an International school if you wanted to continue with IB?

solittletime · 14/09/2019 14:06

Won't being in the UK for 2 years prior to university help with student fees? Otherwise he would have to pay as a foreign student?
I don't know the ins and outs, just something to think about.
He can def do IB in international schools in London.
Switching to A levels would alsi not be majorly difficult to be honest. He'd probably find A level work easier

Answerthequestion · 14/09/2019 11:39

I would bring him over after his IGCSE’s. There is huge movement at 16 and you could even consider a good state 6th form college like Woodhouse in Finchley where all students are both new and doing A levels. There is a huge Indian community in north London, mostly British born, mostly Hindu but also a sizeable Muslim and Sikh community and It’s well integrated he would find it easy to make friends with a mixed group of kids both of similar and different backgrounds.
I’d look at north London - City is a good option really multicultural but they do ask high grades for their 6th form and it’s boys only. UCS has a co-Ed sixth form and ask for lower grades. Highgate is co-Ed too. Lots of good state options, Woodhouse is an excellent 6th form college, Mill Hill County is a high performing comprehensive or you could go out towards Hertfordshire and look at the excellent semi selective state schools like Watford grammar or Parmiters. Camden school for Girls has boys in their 6th form so all boys are new together.

QuaterMiss · 14/09/2019 11:24

Yes ... Obviously the ‘best’ (most academically successful) independent schools only want to bring in new sixth formers who are likely to maintain or enhance their standing in league tables. (Or word of mouth reputation.) There’s a higher demand for private schooling at A’ level so they can afford to be exceptionally choosy.

Original poster
BetteDavisthighs · 14/09/2019 10:37

I have to say I am quite taken aback at the complicated procedures for entrance tests, interviews, then conditional offers: the whole shebang necessary for the selective schools. And then a conditional offer dependant on IGCSE grades. Some schools are ok with us taking the test here at the British Council, but others want us to come all the way to the UK for the test, then come back again for the interview!

OP posts:
Sherry19 · 13/09/2019 14:02

This reply has been withdrawn

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

JoJoSM2 · 13/09/2019 13:44

If your son is academic and sporty, have a look at Whitgift School.

physicskate · 13/09/2019 13:34

In my (extensive) experience on uk immigration fora, lawyers don't always have the expertise they claim... I'm happy to point you in the right direction too, if you need some guidance.

Original poster
BetteDavisthighs · 13/09/2019 12:54

Physicskate and Lizs,

Completely appreciate your views on the ILR issue. You are lovely to take the time to explain this. I am exploring this with a lawyer and it will be a consideration.

OP posts:
physicskate · 13/09/2019 09:21

If he would like a realistic prospect of being able to stay in the uk long term, he should come with you at 16 as he would be able to get a Tier 2 dependent visa. He would then be eligible for ilr after 5 years, provided your husband remains a TIer 2 worker and he remains your dependent (which can include being a student). This would enable him to take up any work he wishes upon leaving university.

If he decides to go to a uk university and move at 18, he would need a TIer 4 visa which does not lead to ILR and he would almost certainly have to leave the UK after university (though a two year post study work visa is possibly reintroduced, it won't lead to settlement). If 18 upon initial entry, he would need to qualify for all visas in his own right.

I know 5 years can seem a terribly long time, but should you decide to stay in the UK long term with your son, he needs to come with you when you immigrate, or it could shut the door on you all living in the same country.

LIZS · 13/09/2019 08:15

Think at 16 he would be viewed as a dependant but possibly not as an 18yo.

AnotherNewt · 13/09/2019 08:13

King's used to offer only IB after GCSE, now it offers A levels as well, so that is probably the school in London to go for.

But never underestimate the importance of your teen being happy. Moving school is a big thing, and even those who actively want to do it can find it tough to settle in to school routines and fit in socially, and by the first Christmas almost a third of the active teaching time has passed. Add an international move, and a teen who does not want to do this, and it becomes very challenging.

If you can afford London school fees without terror, then you can probably afford plenty of flights (for you to pop over, and for him to come to you every holiday)

If you are looking ahead to university fees, read up on UKCISA

Original poster
BetteDavisthighs · 13/09/2019 08:00

Thank you all for your v kind replies. I am v grateful that a MN first poster has got so much help. I will try to reply; apologies if I leave anyone out. I had another talk with DS yesterday and he is not completely opposed to the idea of moving. He has also agreed to visit schools ( both public and private), do the exams, see how they look, and then decide. DS is definitely a calm, reasonable teen ( or as calm as they get) and is not prone to drama or yelling. Likes to talk things over and make a reasoned decision slowly.

I really do not want to take advantage of my mom's good nature to do my parenting ( haven't even asked her yet), and I also worry terribly that DS may think we have left him behind because it's more convenient:( I have friends in London who said " Honestly it will be so much cheaper and more convenient to leave him behind" and that made me feel quite sad. I don't want him to feel like left baggage!

I am also not going to think of money at this stage because we have spent years saving on an expat salary- no expensive clothes, no posh cars- and I want to use it, if needed, to keep the family together.

nowaytoclever: understand entirely that these are v personal choices and I am not offended by your advice:) . IB schools in India do often have great results. I don't know how since the teachers are often rubbish! I will say though that DS, while academic, is also pretty sporty, plays football and is an obsessive Spurs fan! The world seems to be much smaller these days, so am hoping he may make friends easier, given all the kids are doing the same things.

Michaelahpurple: I appreciate your mention of the ethnic diversity in London schools. I would like a bit of that certainly, though my daughter who is at uni overseas has made friends from every country possible, and is v clear she does not want to hang out with other Indians:) So DS may be that way once he gets used to the idea. English is our first language so no language or similar issues.

Physicskate: we are all Indian citizens. Lived in the UK before but for only 2.5 years; not enough to stay. My husband will get a Tier 2 General Visa ( not intra company transfer). I am not sure about what you mean about 16 versus 18. Do you mean if we want to aim for an ILR in the future? I haven't yet gone into the intricacies of the ILR. Definitely plan to do so soon, but it's 5 years away anyway, and who knows where we will all be.

Leonard: what a brave decision! Glad it turned out ok. DS wd definitely not be able to live on his own, but would be a easy going ward for granny, if that is what we decide.

I may report back here once we finish going around London schools.

OP posts:
physicskate · 13/09/2019 01:20

Is he a British citizen? Would your husband get a tier 2 or Tier 2 Ict (if he also is not British)?

16 vs 18 could make a huge difference for visas...