Please or to access all these features

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Finally, some standardisation/consistency

39 replies

Kazzyhoward · 06/09/2019 14:28

I've long since thought that a lot of the problems in school was that individual teachers did their own thing, which meant loss of quality, extra work for them, difficulties when kids move between classes etc.

Just noticed that our son's school have "standardised" their English Literature. Instead of individual teachers randomly chosing their own texts (from the exam board lists) to study, the head of dept has imposed her own texts on all the GCSE/A level teachers.

Not only that, she's imposed time frames in which each text is taught, i.e. they're all being taught a particular book each term.

This means that they can now "bulk" order the texts in larger numbers, so parents can get a better discounted price. It also facilitates the children being able to move up/down a set whereas in the past they were "trapped" for the entire 2 year period.

Despite the school historically getting very good results in Maths, Science and humanities, for some reason, English grades have always been a lot lower. They are hoping that standardisation will address this. We shall see in 2 years' time!

Personally, I'm a great believer in standardisation. I never could understand why teachers wanted to "do their own thing" all the time, which to my mind just makes more work for themselves.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
ItsInTheSpoon · 08/09/2019 09:57

Teachers should be able to choose texts that they love and think will suit the class they have
This is absolutely right. The enthusiasm that can be awakened in a pupil from a good teacher is almost unbelievable!

Finerumpus · 08/09/2019 09:51

The approach described in the OP shows a lack of understanding of the pedagogy of a subject like English. Being a head of English is a difficult job and due to lack of time, I can see why the regimented approach is appealing to managers. But kids don’t go to school to make managers’ lives easier and deserve to be taught properly. In English that is about complex relationship between student, teacher & text.

GrammarTeacher · 07/09/2019 06:39

Yup the quotation hysteria is just hysteria. We get to teach what we want from the spec. Parents buy books (HoD sends good second hand links as well) but if this was a struggle for anyone we would supply.
It is important to choose the right book for the right class and the right teacher.
We also stopped doing the same thing at the same time in KS3 so that we only had to buy one set of certain books.
The different options on the spec are there for that reason. I've never taught in a school where that decision was made for me at GCSE or A Level (I have only worked in two schools though).

margotsdevil · 06/09/2019 22:57

There are definitely shortages in Scotland in most subjects (bar PE, as far as I can see) but you would never be timetabled to a subject permanently outwith your specialism, although maybe as short term supply

Mistressiggi · 06/09/2019 22:38

I'm not sure in that subject area Lola. There are definitely difficulties filling some posts, especially temporary ones. We are hoping our recent pay rise will go some way toward retaining staff Smile

LolaSmiles · 06/09/2019 22:03

Does Scotland have the same shortage of staff? Is there a good supply of specialists?

The renegades I've worked with have been really horrible to even nice and reasonable heads of team. They've even done things deliberately to try and make the HoD look bad to SLT.

margotsdevil · 06/09/2019 21:58

@LolaSmiles and @Nagsnovalballs - he's great, respected by colleagues, pupils and parents, good results as well. But we are in Scotland where they HAVE to be English specialists...

To be fair, he's also an excellent manager who has reined in some would be renegades whilst still allowing the flexibility.

Piggywaspushed · 06/09/2019 21:48

nags, I think I love you! Grin

Piggywaspushed · 06/09/2019 21:46

I agree with lola. I think the 'learning off by heart' is a little bit of hysteria. To be honest, that is exactly how I revised English back in the day!

The 2 hr 15 exam, though, is brutal.Especially when I taught a child with extra time and rest breaks!!

TeenPlusTwenties · 06/09/2019 21:27

I too have a problem with 2hrs 15mins. My DD gets extra time, so that makes it the best part of 3 hours. I'm just praying she doesn't have 2 exams on those days.

LolaSmiles · 06/09/2019 21:24

They have to know the texts well and be able to discuss the big themes and characters. They also need to be able to analyse key quotations.

I don't have a problem with the closed book element as it means less messing around flicking through books in the exam and more is automatic.

I originally thought I'd hate the new approach but actually I quite like it. There's been a lot of needless hype in the press over it in my opinion. I do have an issue with the exam being 2hours 15mins though. I think it's excessive and would be better split down.

TeenPlusTwenties · 06/09/2019 21:19

While there is a whole bunch of English teachers on this thread, may I ask a question?

I keep reading about pupils having to learn masses and masses of stuff off by heart now they don't have the texts in the exam.

Is that true? When I did O levels ~40 years ago we didn't have to learn loads. Yes, you needed quotes to support your views of characterisation, or themes, but mainly they went in naturally as you studied and discussed the texts, it wasn't a big task.

LolaSmiles · 06/09/2019 21:16

Mistressiggi
I'd like to say I've never seen that but I've been in supporting schools where that's the case. Or schools where the head of English is in their 3rd year of teaching (2 years teach first so one of those 3 was their training year) and TeachFirst can place you in subjects other than your degree. Or departments that are staffed by a revolving door of cover supervisors.

I think it's not a case of robotic uniformity or total autonomy in all areas because both extremes are bad for the pupils in my opinion. If you've got a department of highly skilled staff, experienced, low staff turnover, no renegade cliques then you can offer more freedom than if you've got inexperienced staff, non specialists, high staff turnover or renegade cliques. Most departments are at different points in the middle.

Teachermaths · 06/09/2019 21:14

If sets are not rigidly done by ability there is no reason for all this constant movement between sets anyway!

Works fine for non tiered English.

Bloody nightmare in Maths though.

I honestly had no idea that some departments could choose their own texts.

Our SOW runs like nobles. Mostly doing the same topic at once but at different levels. Until GCSE when higher sets have more content.

Mistressiggi · 06/09/2019 21:11

Two thirds of your department aren't actually English teachers? I should have saved my "insanity" comment for that!

LolaSmiles · 06/09/2019 21:09

Margot - he sounds like the kind of HoD all schools need
He sounds like the HoD that people like me and Piggy would love (along with other experienced staff who balance autonomy and accountability well).

That approach doesn't work in a department where 2/3 your team are non specialists. Or where your KS3 is partially staffed by PE/DT/Geography staff who are a few hours under allocation.

It also doesn't work if you have a number of renegades who seem to think that autonomy means do what you want, pretend the curriculum hasn't changed, but blame the students or any other factors if challenged about progress.

In a time when we've not got a consistent supply of strong core subject teachers in all schools then we've got to work accordingly.

Mistressiggi · 06/09/2019 21:08

Insanity. In English this is nuts. Maybe a level of conformity that is ok in maths or science, but an English teacher not being able to choose a text that matches their class and their own passion? Surely you are teaching various skills through the medium of the text, can't see why it matters which one as long as a balance of drama, poetry etc. OP sounds like she'd prefer robots than professionals.

Nagsnovalballs · 06/09/2019 21:01

Margot - he sounds like the kind of HoD all schools need

Nagsnovalballs · 06/09/2019 21:00

As an English lecturer this makes me sad. All the creativity, passion and playfulness is being taken out of the study of literature. Students are no longer encouraged to think independently. It starts with taking away autonomy from teachers and succumbing to a relentless drive for standardisation.

The exam system is driving schools to act in this way, to the detriment of teachers and also to the greater punishment of the creative kids who don’t fit in boxes. Your school probably didn’t have as good results because they weren’t submitting to the Gradgrindian misery of the modern exam system. Or they were badly managed.

Teachers should be able to choose texts that they love and think will suit the class they have - one year, a class may have a dynamic that suits one text, another year it might be totally different. A good SLT will help and support their teaching team in these decisions.

I work with a lot of wonderful teachers who have been hamstrung, infantilised and forced to shove kids through a depressing quote ‘n’ rote learning system. They do their best to defy the system and give space to students to develop their creativity, independence and passion for reading, but the relentless drive for grades - which are measured on spurious aspects of literature and in no way prepare students for studying literature at university - means that schools keep pushing towards homogenising everything. This is to the detriment of students’ and teachers’ mental health, never mind the fact that the things the study of English literature help you to develop - independent thinking, the ability to argue, creativity - are no longer centred on the curriculum.

Sorry, this is a real rant point from me because I have seen so many broken and alienated young people who don’t fit the boxes of the current school system but would make wonderful literature students at university. I also work with some extraordinary teachers who have to defy the system in order to teach in the inspiring ways they feel that their students deserve, and often they too break themselves in the process.

margotsdevil · 06/09/2019 20:59

I'm good friends with our English HoD. He firmly believes that teachers need freedom to teach texts that they love - he sees it as part of their job to nurture a love of literature (whether that it's poetry, a play or a novel) and doesn't think that's possible if he imposes set texts beyond those set by the SQA. He also believes that not all texts are suitable for all classes - not just because of ability but due to the balance of personalities in a class.

English isn't Maths or Science - I don't think they are comparable in that way.

Piggywaspushed · 06/09/2019 20:51

Yes, you are right, revision and 'intervention' has brought about more uniformity teen. Tail wagging dog and all that.

noble we do provide books, as it goes , but ask students to buy their own. If anyone wants to do a radically different text choice , they might be allowed to, but it is negotiated based on whether we have budget to buy a set.

What I have never understood is why I wasn't allowed to do a different poetry cluster Sad

LolaSmiles · 06/09/2019 20:46

Piggywaspushed
That's good. You sound like me. I'm no fan of lesson by lesson conformity either and wouldn't work somewhere that does that. Equally I think it's good to raise issues and challenge bad decisions.

I'm not a fan of the renegade approach either as in my experience they tend to be staff who think they are better than they are and are more bothered about doing what they want than getting kids decent progress (because in my experience they are quick to blame external factors over taking any responsibility). Not all will be but the ones I've met are.

noble
It depends.
Some departments I've been in will have a half termly rotation. Others encourage kids to get their own so they can make annotations in it. Others buy a whole cohort of texts.

But holes? Holes? Terrible book.Grin

TeenPlusTwenties · 06/09/2019 20:44

noble We (parents) buy the texts so the pupils can annotate them.

TeenPlusTwenties · 06/09/2019 20:42

I believe sets are less important in English so moving sets is less of an issue.
tbh Pretty much the only reasons I can see for enforcing consistency of books would be:

  • less effort compiling exams
  • out of school / last minute revision sessions - the department could put on one 'Macbeth' session, rather than needing (if they though extra sessions were needed) Macbeth + R&J + aMoV.

But I can see a benefit to a department head mandating order of topics and general timescales.

noblegiraffe · 06/09/2019 20:38

What’s this about parents buying the texts? Don’t schools just have boxes of ‘Holes’ knocking around? I’d have thought doing the text at different times would then mean needing one box of books instead of 5.

In my maths department we have the SOL that we all follow in basically the same order because of regular assessments by which you have to have covered all the content. There’s a bit of flexibility to switch around topics within those times - I might say ‘god I’ve not got the printing budget left this month to do transformations so I’ll skip to solving equations then go back to it when I’ve got more money’ but by the next assessment that work will have been covered.