Grammar results - what do you think please

Progress 8 gives the value added because it marks the difference between what a child could do when they arrived and what they could do at the end of year 11. I would want to ask the grammar school why their P8 scores are so low and how they're addressing this. You feel the grammar has a more focussed work ethic but that doesn't se to be having an impact on the children's learning. On the other hand the other school have good P8 so must be doing something right in terms of what the children are learning.

Because results are the only thing that counts right?! What about how your child feels when they look round the school, what about extra curricular activities, what about it's location. You can't determine the best fit for your child by looking at a set of numbers!!

No Iamnew, another school I don't want to name as outing but with very similar results to KGS but it is not viewed as particularly selective. It's main intake is it's own and other prep so it's not discussed much on this board.

cakeisalwaystheanswer are you referring to Kingston Grammar School as the "non selective indie"? It is extremely selective, I thought, so not a far comparison??

What is the behaviour and work ethic like in the two schools assuming that you've visited both?

It's much easier to get good results if all of your peers are hard working and nobody messes about and disrupts lessons.

If the comprehensive has sets, is it for all subjects or just English, Maths, Languages etc?

OP - you really do need to take on board the comments from posters about value added scores. DD attends a not particularly selective co-ed Indy near Tiffin boys and they regularly outperform Tiffin on GCSEs and A levels. How? Huge value added scores.
There is little point your DS spending hours a day on a bus to be part of a large cohort of bright boys when he could stay local and possibly get better results.

I suspect that the child doesn't want to try for the grammar, or the journey is much more difficult than she says, or someone else in the family is resistant. Or she wants the grammar for snob reasons alone and it’s trying to find another reason.

She wants to be told absolutely go for the grammar.

In that case, go for the grammar.

I’m often surprised how badly grammar school pupils do - in that I would expect better results given their selection methods. Re comprehensives- my DD was in set four of an inner city comprehensive, so not the top stream, which was sets one to three, and still got 14 GCSEs, of which 9 were A* and the rest As, including maths and English, three sciences, two foreign languages, etc. I would definitely take the comprehensive. People do cream off to grammar schools in my area, but it’s quite a distance to travel, as there are none nearby, and also a lot go to independents.

OP - you can surely see for yourself from the stats you've posted for high prior attainers that the comprehensive school stats are better for this type of DC.

As everyone told you in your last thread, you have an absolutely fantastic comprehensive (on paper)on your doorstep and it really isn't worth a complicated house move and no guarantee of a grammar place at the end of it.

I suspect you are liking the grammar for snob value.

Tiffin gets better results as it is super selective and only selects the top 2 or 3 % of the ability range. Most grammars select a wider age range (depends on area, but typically 20-30%).

You remind me of my mother how constantly tells me that there are no good schools in my area - by good she means ones with top of league table type results (such as Tiffin) - which is just not possible where I live as it's fully comprehensive and schools genuinely take the whole of the ability range. She also refuses to believe that selecting a very able student at 11 and churning out a DC with a string of good results at 16 is not really that clever a trick.

If you prefer the grammar for other reasons such as ethos or extra-curricular activities that is absolutely fine, but IMO these would have to be pretty special to make the move worthwhile. If you try hard enough you can probably find some statistic that shows the grammar is "better" - but why not just be honest with yourself about why you want to go in that direction?

She wants to be told absolutely go for the grammar.

OP. Absolutely go for the grammar.

Maybe if you tell us the answer you actually want then people can post what you want to hear?

Here's a thought - visit the schools!

Which schools are they?

Your not comparing like for like. You have school 1 where the social and educational capital of the child's background is high versus school 2 where it's low. Grammar schools ( due to their selective methods) cream off top set pupils. I would ask why in school 1 they are not much higher to be honest!

Progress 8 is a really useful indicator and looking at what you've posted I would go with the non grammar. I would also be comparing travel times, extracurricular activities, ethos and most importantly which one the child prefers.

I thought I’d seen this post loads of times. Are you just going to keep posting until you get the answer you want?

When is your child supposed to start? Many of the super selective s here require you live in the area for 2 years prior to taking the exam. Why not just see what happens after they’ve taken the exam?

I would never move to a grammar catchment unless there was a really great non selective school I could guarantee to get a place at too. So many bright children do not pass the 11+. It’s far too risky.

Clever kids do well anywhere IMO. DD1 got 7A*s 1A and 2 Bs and has just qualified as a Solicitor. DD2 got 2x9s 7x8s and 1x6. I think their school I think is less than average in results though has a SEN unit :
"62% achieved at least 5 grade 4s including English and Maths and 40% achieved at least 5 grade 5s including English and Maths" - taken from their website for 2018. For both we considered other options. No grammars here but private which we could only have done with a scholarship. This would have involved very long days and both girls thought they'd do well anyway and wanted local friends. Both thrived and as the school put them in sets, they always worked at an appropriate pace. It sounds like your comprehensive school is a very good one and I'd just go for the easy life personally.

You keep posting about the same thing. As others have said if your child is grammar school material they will likely be in top sets at the comprehensive school.
The progress at the state school is above average. You can go on to DFE website and do comparisons with other schools in the area.
Why don't you just let DC do the 11+ and see if they get into the grammar? They may not even get in.
Make the decision once you know they have a place. You can always turn it down.
I went to grammar school but things were different back then. No coaching or tuition & I don't recall my parents being too bothered either way.
School is more than exam results. It's about friendship, building confidence, shared experience etc. In a decent comprehensive your DC would still be able to get top grades.

Why do you like the grammar better than the comprehensive? Specifically?

What is the progress 8 of prior high attainers at the non grammar - that will be the better comparison.

Having seen you other posts you’ve already made up your mind that it is the grammar but need justification. DD is at a Grammer within walking distance, progress 8 is 0.93 and we had no local catchment comprehensive.

Do not get swayed by the results. The grammar is doing worse overall on progress then the local school, so on that basis (unless the progress 8 for prior high attainers shows otherwise) a bright child will do better in the local school than the grammar. Plus no long travel.