More money for teachers plus stricter discipline in schools - Tory leak

I'm confused woman. Are you saying using restraint techniques is child abuse? Are you saying pulling two children apart in a fight is child abuse?

I think we all agree the description of the head's behaviour is not 'reasonable'.

A poll recently showed the vast majority of teachers do not want to exercise any kind of force at all on students . We would rather not be in that situation. When teachers and headteachers say we are not given enough power over behaviour policy, we do not mean we want to abuse the children.

As noble says the guidelines are not new. I had cause to check them recently and found them very vague. Personally, I think it best if teachers never touch students at all, but I know not everyone agrees, and of late many people have supported a handshaking, high fiving, cuddling when upset culture.

I recall seeing a HT drag an 8 year old by the scruff of his neck to his office and proceed to scream at him in a very violent manner - was that reasonable? It didn't feel like it at the time

Sounds like a criminal offence, ABH or GBH.

Hope it was reported to the police.

tbh I’d expect heads to be trained in restraint techniques
Would you?
I presume and hope that you're not involved in education or involved with caring for children.

Child Abuse is illegal in civilised countries.

Using violence on children as a form of punishment was made illegal in britain, thankfully, through our membership of the EU.

This form of Child Abuse is very popular with the tory leadership right now, hence its inclusion in recent 'educational proposals'

Obviously it was also a policy of the ukips and the brexit party, but fortunately they have never managed to gain a seat in our parliament.

The HT I witnessed drag the kid by the scruff of the neck felt secure, justified - I bitterly regret not reporting it - but I had my own issues with the way the school were behaving and admit I got my kids out as soon as I could.
Reasonable force and strictness are approaches that are easily abused and I wonder how many of the parents who object to reasonably soft forms of discipline currently employed by schools, do so as a knee jerk reaction to their own school days when teachers often abused kids both verbally and physically.

@Noblegiraffe Was it reasonable if the kid was violent - especially towards teachers?

What is reasonable force though? I recall seeing a HT drag an 8 year old by the scruff of his neck to his office and proceed to scream at him in a very violent manner - was that reasonable? It didn't feel like it at the time.

I really do hope that the information that has come out is wrong. Schools need more money to be able to function properly, which I think nearly everybody now accepts.
If schools get a £3.5B increase in funding then that is really good news but it is not good news if it is accompanied by the massive potential increase in teacher's salaries. This will simply leaves us in status quo of struggling to make ends meet, not allowing schools to do some of the many things they would like to do with extra funding.

Laura McInerney on Twitter:

*This salary rise for new teachers is going to be done by squeezing out teaching assistants and more experienced teachers isn’t it?

We are back to 2010 all over again.*

I think there's recent research on how to effectively deploy TAs which show they can make a real difference.

I recently taught a deaf child (with cochlear implant) who had his TA hours reduced. He was mid ability and with the TA coped really well- but in the lessons where he lost his TA he did have more issues. I could help to an extent by checking in regularly and printing off notes and the girl he sat with was lovely and helpful and would help him with any instructions he missed. Even so, he said he found the lessons without a TA harder and his classwork did suffer at times.

In a different school I know a girl entitled to a TA on her ECHP who doesn't get one because she "rejected" it. I know there comes a point when children should be allowed to make these decisions, but I don't think it's at the start of Year 7. She copes and is very good at looking busy but I do think TA support would benefit her massively.

That's the point some schools have got to with lack of TAs, to say there are "too many" is ridiculous to me!

My area is one of the very underfunded ones . Massive Tory majorities , mind. Apart from the town of the famous free school, which is a bellweather marginal, so we'll see what happens there.

I think the issue with TAs is more to do with a concern that often TAs are not deployed effectively (there was research on this a number of years ago).

Brilliant.

If they don't increase all the salaries I'll go back to M1 and do nooooo extra work.

Bingo 🤣

With the extra money for SEND, the stuff about TAs and the push to have "alternative provision" free schools, I wonder if the long term plan is to push against the idea of inclusion?

I think you're right there.

I personally find TA presence obtrusive and unhelpful tbh.

That’s not intended as a slight on individuals of course.

One of my students gave me a black eye last term. I assume 'reasonable force' would only apply to children like them?

If starting salaries go up to £30k, then realistically M2-M4 have to go up too, and then really everything else has to go up, or you've got a massively compressed pay scale. That's a lot of money on teacher salaries- TBH I'll believe it when I see it!

Also surely an incentive of £24,000 is going to do nothing to encourage anyone to take over a failing school? I assume they've missed a 0 off that.

I think the behaviour stuff is alright, although vague- but after spending years undermining teachers (and experts), is it any surprise that society and as a result students have lost respect for teachers. I'm intrigued to know how, exactly, the government is going to support teachers in confiscating mobile phones. Will Gavin Williamson come into classrooms and make teenagers hand them over?

Inspections for "outstanding" schools who got that label 10+ years ago is almost definitely a good thing.

The stuff about free schools and academies is meh- not sure how this will work in terms of providing extra school places where they are needed.

And the stuff about TAs is worrying. Maybe it's badly worded and they're worried about TAs covering classes instead of qualified teachers during e.g. primary school PPA? TAs are as rare as gold dust in most secondary schools as far as I'm aware. Reducing their numbers really means that only students with ECHPs would get any TA input at all.

With the extra money for SEND, the stuff about TAs and the push to have "alternative provision" free schools, I wonder if the long term plan is to push against the idea of inclusion?

I find it deeply worrying that so called experts don’t see the value of TAs. Do they not spend any time in schools?