More money for teachers plus stricter discipline in schools - Tory leak

A-level funding is a massive issue. It's been effectively cut as per pupil funding has been frozen since 2013. Obviously this means that small class sizes s are no longer really viable. I know more and more schools are cutting A-levels as they are no longer viable. In the county where I live, I know of at least one school that's closing its sixth form altogether- although there are other local factors involved.

I have had to use ‘reasonable force’ to restrain children. Here are a few examples from the previous school year.

1. Child A attacking Child B by using a laptop to beat her over the head.
2. Child C self harming in class using a pen.
3. Child D repeatedly hitting his head off a brick wall.
4. Child D pushing Child E to the floor and kicking her in the face repeatedly.

I am trained in team teach. I am a mainstream primary school teacher.

Would some previous posters really suggest that I should not have used reasonable force on these children?

boys always good to hear from a parent who gets it!

first off even, large red SP in the margin for me

as a parent I have to be blunt and say that I'm glad I only have one DC still at school, heading into Y12 this week. From my perspective - with all three DCs attending the same secondary school / sixth form - there has been a lot of deterioration since DS1 started y7 back in 2006. This seems largely to be driven by reduced funding and unrealistic societal expectations.

So first of a massive thank you to teachers in general. Whilst there are no doubt a minority the profession would like rid of, the vast majority deserve appreciation and respect - taking an interest, going the extra mile, seeking that extra effort - but

Money - clearly whatever spin is put financial resources are a massive issue. The class sizes for DS3 heading into sixth form look to be almost double that for Ds1 in the same subjects. Experienced and talented teachers across a range of subjects seem to have been pensioned off so to speak. This is not to denigrate younger teachers but Ds1 in particular benefited from this rapidly diminishing cohort. Maybe this is a just a local issue - however our sixth form is made up of three schools all with this issue.

£30,000 starting salary. Absolutely agree IF it is funded properly and not another case of robbing Peter to pay Paul, and the consequences from pay bands for the next levels are considered.

Societal expectations I may be wrong but it seems that schools, and therefore largely the teachers working within them, are expected to be able to cure all society's ills and are blamed, along to a slightly lesser extent with Universities, when they can't. Silly me I thought it was mainly about teaching and pastoral care imbuing a real interest in a subject and desire to learn.

Much of the leak seems to be a continuation of obsessive dogma, as opposed to any evidence based policy direction.

"Team teach" is one of the most used techniques in schools around behaviour management and teaches positive behaviour management strategies emphasising de-escalation and positive handling in conflict management.
The majority of the course is about de-escalation of any incident.
It does however also teach how to properly handle pupils who are in danger of doing themselves or others damage. The other most important aspect is proper reporting of any such incidents so that teachers are protected against false claims.
Whether Woman likes it or not there needs to be the capability of restraint in appropriate circumstances to avoid a bad situation getting worse. She may change her mind about her version of things if she spent some time in behaviour special schools and saw the damage that some pupils can do to themselves and others.

“Reasonable force” has always been allowed.

It’s just never used (or barely ever) because teachers would know that it would be likely used against them, they would be accused of assault and then sacked.

Telling teachers they have more “powers” is ridiculous. They don’t. And they don’t want more “powers” they want the support mechanisms to be put in place to help manage the kids who can’t or won’t learn.

Although I am confused as to who on the thread you think has advocated reasonable force as part of disciplinary measures.

If you read my post above you will see I said I don't believe teachers should lay hands on pupils so you are wrong there.

If teachers refuse to carry out corporal punishment, it will not happen.

I just read that Guardian article , too. I am not sure what it adds to you actual argument. We all know it happened in the past. John Walter's school was not typical. 30+ years ago, 'only' the head caned. It is a long time since all teachers had the cane by their desk.
In my whole time at school, I remember it happening once to one boy. The appetite for corporal punishment went long before it was outlawed.

I know you are worried about Brexit, but this is a discrete issue.

I still need you to a)read the link and b) provide evidence that the Tories plan to bring back corporal punishment

Nothing was forced on us by a (wonderful/nanny state/bureaucratic/ delete as applicable) EU

Wrong.

1982 ECHR ruling
ECHR separate from EU but up till now, compliance with ECHR necessary for EU membership
1998 Labour government.

Still, seems like the old 'reasonable force as part of disciplinary measures' very popular with you folks, so I'll leave you to it.

Although this is a good read from the olden days:

Why I'm glad corporal punishment is now only found in books

It’s hard to believe that just 30 years ago teachers used to routinely hit children who got out of line. Author Jon Walter on what it was like to fear physical punishment at school when he was growing up

www.theguardian.com/childrens-books-site/2016/jul/01/corporal-punishment-jon-walter

I am going to ask you again woman... have you read the link!!!?

Teachers may not want it but it is what the tories are proposing and they look likely to win next election by a landslide.

It isn’t. If Boris wanted to bring back the cane he would just say so, then do a victory lap, because I suspect it would make him unassailable with his base.

Teachers do not want a reintroduction of physical punishment. Most don't even actually want restraint in schools

Teachers may not want it but it is what the tories are proposing and they look likely to win next election by a landslide.

Will of the people.

I am also not entirely sure it was the EU that saw to the banning of corporal punishment in the UK or the ECHR. There was a vote in parliament which was won by a huge majority (only 11 MPs voted to retain it). Nothing was forced on us by a (wonderful/nanny state/bureaucratic/ delete as applicable) EU.

I am so old I was teaching at this time and most schools had stopped using corporal punishment long before this in practice.

No teachers use punishment.

It's used as a restraint in extreme circumstances. For example we once had a child who had lost it. was punching the wall repeatedly. He broke his knuckle in the process and started on a glass door. When that cracked he was restrained as he was putting himself in real danger of serious harm. That's when we need to step in sometimes.

Physical punishment was also not made illegal in Britain in 1986. there were different dates in Scotland and the rest of the UK.

afaik, restraint is barely used in schools, other than in some APUs and SEND schools. And, if you read the guidelines, they are clear that extreme restraint is not allowed.

woman you are barking up the wrong tree, honestly. Teachers do not want a reintroduction of physical punishment. Most don't even actually want restraint in schools.

People on two threads have copied and pasted the documentation for you. Have you read it?

You need to provide me with evidence that the government plans to reintroduce physical punishment

There may be concerns about the mention of the use of ‘reasonable force’ as part of disciplinary measures. This is likely to simply be a restatement that yes, teachers are allowed to restrain violent pupils

Restraint is not Discipline.

It is not a 'restatement' .

What it is, is old ukip, now tory party policy.

Violence as punishment is abhorrent and still illegal in schools.

Clearly a vote winner with a certain demographic though.

Of course there needs to be a reasonable force policy. How can you protect yourself and the children in your care otherwise?

Yes, there's no mention of it as a punishment.

It's to be used as it is now (which is in extremis) but seems to possibly extend powers in taking phones and bag searches.

I understand that 'restraint' is legal in schools in britain now.

That it is needed at all, is an indictment of how awful british education and the lives lived of mainly working class british school kids is atm, but that's another argument.

What is appalling is the proposal to bring back violence against children as a punishment. Beating children is Child Abuse no matter how one frames it.

It was made illegal in britain in 1986, thanks to the EU and ECHR legislation

But it's clearly a vote winner........

green. I am a teacher! No need to shout at me. I a defending us against woman who thinks we all want to beat children!

I would like those situations not to arise, obviously. In case a, no as a 5ft 3 female, I would not physically touch students. Teachers who have done this in our school recently have been injured and I am not risking my own physical safety.

In case b, why would you have to touch a student who was throwing something? I don't get how that would help.

Case c , I'd probably let the silly sausage jump off the table. Can't say I have encountered case c.

Under no circumstances would I risk harm to myself.

I have intervened in fights before by placing myself in between students. Not something I like doing. Pretty sure that's what the police do. A teacher pushing kids aside might end up escalating things inadvertently as young people in an aggressive state of mind become more aggressive, I have found, when pushed back by either a teacher or nay kind of peacemaker.

So, obviously, as I said , in my ideal world, no teacher would lay hands on a (secondary) student. I can't see how it would usually help.

I think it best if teachers never touch students at all

What if a student is harming another? Or throwing objects or attempting to jump off tables?

What do you expect a teacher to do then? Walk away?