Greenwich/Blackheath Secondary schools advice please

It depends. There are some partially selective state schools where if one child passes on test the other siblings get in on sibling rule. For fully selective grammar schools the child still has to pass the test but a sibling may put them in a sibling category rather than an out of county category which might require a higher score. For those that go by score and not just a pass then siblings are usually treated just the same as everyone else.

Selective Independents will all have their own rules but from experience I’ve seen they can be a little more ‘flexible’ for siblings who might not have made the full grade, nothing at all to do with donations to the floodlight campaign...

By the time your daughter is 11, she may well be desperate to be a small fish in a bigger pond! Have a look at the destinations of AS children - 6 or 7 each year go to a grammar, approx. 10ish go to a fee-paying school and the rest go to Greycoats or a comprehensive school.

I'm aware from friends whose children have attended All Saints that there tends to be a lot of angst about secondary school places - it's easier said than done but try not to be too swayed by the opinions and hearsay of school parents.

This autumn is a good time to start having a look at a few schools - look on the Lewisham, Greenwich and Bexley websites for the 'starting secondary school in 2020' booklets. They will usually list the open days for the secondary schools as well as explaining the application process.

I'm assuming your daughter is at All Saints - I can't think of any other state primary in the area where there's likely to be talk of tutoring since Reception! There are plenty of good state schools in your area and I'd recommend that you visit them, follow them on Twitter and read their newsletters/news section of their websites regularly to get a feel for what goes on. I've got friends with teenagers at John Roan, Eltham Hill, Thomas Tallis, Newstead Woods, the three Prendergast schools, Trinity in Lewisham, Bexley Grammar, Dartford Grammar, Beths Grammar, Townley Grammar, Colfes, St Dunstan's, Sedgehill, Sydenham Girls, Kingsdale, St Matthew, Haberdasher Askes (Hatcham and Knights), the IAG... as well as other schools I've probably forgotten. They are all decent schools but what suits one child may not suit another. Most schools round here admit children based on their home to school distance. A few (Prendergast Hilly Fields, Haberdasher Askes Hatcham and Kingsdale) offer music scholarships for about 10% of each cohort. The grammar schools in Bexley offer places on the basis of home to school distance only if a child is deemed selective in the tests (11+) but children whose score is in the top 180 of scorers get their choice of grammar regardless of where they live. If you are interested in continuing at a CE school, do visit Trinity; it's a much smaller school than many in the area and I know of a number of children who have thrived there because of its caring, pastoral approach. It's also worth knowing that many of us who live in a similar area to you have made a positive choice to send our children to local comprehensives, even if they had a guaranteed place at one of the grammar schools. There's a lot to be said for attending a school that is local and for which there is no need to be dependent upon the vagaries of the trains. The Y11 children I know who have come away with all grade 8s and 9s are those at the local comprehensives, not the ones at the grammars or the private schools - they've been noticed, nurtured and pushed by their schools and have benefited from it.

Why not try for a scholarship and/or bursary? The Dulwich schools are pretty well endowed and the school bus from Blackheath takes about 45 minutes.

CassianAndor, you've piqued my interest. I might drive over one day and see if it's any different to where I live or some other similar burbs.

nope, I come from an affluent outer suburb (not south east London, though). It's this specific area. Go and have a wander around.

Honestly, it's like Stepford.
I think that's often the vibe of the more affluent outer burbs.

My DD is at Dartford Girls Grammar and there are a lot of girls there from areas such as Lewisham, Eltham, Blackheath and even Nunhead.
The admissions there is based on passing the Kent 11+. A certain proportion of places go to local girls who have passed, and then a certain proportion are offered to the wider area and offered based on score achieved in the 11+.
Girls travel to Dartford station and walk up to the school from there.

it's not the 'outer burbs' I'm talking about, it's the bit specifically around Langley (Langley Park is the area, I think?). Honestly, it's like Stepford.

Horses for courses... I'd hate to live in zones 2-3: pokey terraced housing, pollution, traffic, lack of proper greenery etc...

Anyway, looking at Bromley admissions, Langley Park Girls has admitted from 1.3-1.4miles based on distance (straight line) in the last 3 years. That should be far enough to get away from the outer burbs bit if someone doesn't like it?

Beckenham is very nice but the bit near the Langley comps is utterly soulless, we drove round it recently, I would hate to live there!

With regard to distance, I know it's slightly different in London but both DH and I went to non-local privates and didn't have any local friends at all.

OP, 7 years of fees, more expensive uniforms and lunches + other stuff can easily add up to 150k. If you feel it could put you under pressure, it’s worth exploring state options more.

Another suggestion. If you feel you might be willing to move within SE London but aren’t feeling the vibe of outer burbs, how about Beckenham? I’d say it’s kind of on the cusp of inner/outer burbs with a lovely centre and plenty of parks around.
Langley Park Girls is in Beckenham. It’s a high achieving comp with excellent progress scores. I think the top set or two wouldn’t be dissimilar to being in a grammar. Another good catchment would be Harris Girls Bromley (very good too but not quite as wow as Langley).
If you lived in Beckenham, you’d also be closer to the grammars. Should your daughter manage to secure a place, her commute would be more manageable.

OP, if you can afford the fees comfortably enough, you might as well stay put and look at Colfes, Blackheath High or other local indies. It does seem a bit unnecessary to put DD through a long commute if you don't need to.

On the Bexley front - I drove through there the other week and loved the fields and horses etc

I agree that journey times should be taken into account but I also know parents with children in poorly performing schools who are spending many hours with tutors each week to try and make up for the bad teaching.

There will always be outliers in all schools but why take the chance, John Roan is mentioned upthread, its Progress 8 score is given as 'well below average' -1.02, for prior high attainers it is even worse at -1.18. Newstead Wood School has 'Well above average' at 0.93. Whilst data cannot be taken into isolation, it is a helpful indicator.

Hi
I would like to offer a local view with my own kids in the local state system.
I really would try and talk to some neighbours about their local school experience.

My friends with kids at the new Leigh academy are vey impressed. St Ursulas is fantastic, achieving grammar/private school level results (but you do need to be catholic) and I know many children who have done extremely well at John Roan and Thallis now pursuing degrees at Cambridge, York, Warwick etc. A smart child in a supportive loving home will do well locally. At the end of the day it also comes down to their personal effort, and with teenagers that is a thing of itself.
I also know of kids who have travelled to Kent each day for the grammars from SE10/SE3 and lost 2 hours of their day and had no local friends. The grammars are not the bees knees, they get expected good results from smart kids (who I would argue would get good results in most settings). My friends children at local schools have all also got great GCSE and A level results - it really isn't as bad as the numbers make out! The schools measure progress based on where they are at 11, so if at 11 they are expected to get 8 level 8s at 16, i'm pretty sure most of our local schools would keep them on that track. Its certainly been the case for my own high achieving child. Of course there are children who are not as able, or do not work as hard, but that shouldn't mean your child doesn't reach their own potential.
I would say journey time is a factor at 11 (maybe not at 16) so making a day as simple as possible would be my preference.
Re private options, If you have a sporty child I would say somewhere like Eltham or Colfes is a good private option as undoubtedly you pay for some good facilities there. I do not think you get much for your moneys worth in that regard at BHSG.

Loads of private options accessible by school coach from Blackheath/Standard. Super selective Grammar - Newstead also accessible via Bromley mini coaches. Bexley and Kent Grammar schools - register for the 11+ - almost everyone tutored for any of the Grammar schools and competition is fierce but if she's able then she's in with a chance. Transport easy to the Bexley and Kent schools via train. State schools not great - Thomas Tallis ok.

St Mary Magdalene C of E School on the Peninsula is worth a look. New secondary so I appreciate no results to go by atm but the federation who run it have an excellent track record at primary (they were just one outstanding primary, now they have two schools over 3 sites), the SLT are excellent (I worked for them for 5 years so I'm not just saying that!) and the building is brand new (built in consultation with all staff).

they're not that different - we are looking at JAGS and both Blackheath and Sydenham GDST and there's not much different in price. £500 a term. Which, of course, is a lot but not as much as I would have thought! Alleyns is more expensive again.

JAGs and Alleyns are in a different price bracket though and offer lower scholarships. Plus the bus is quite pricey. Fabulous schools though.

If you can consider private schools, what about JAGs and Alleyne’s as the Dulwich schools run a bus service.

If your child is musical, there is Askes, who will take an out of catchment musical child. It would be a short bus ride away.