Unhelpful school mentor?

Please don’t feel, as some have indicated here, that being ´shat on’ as a trainee teacher is somehow par for the course.

I said that was par for the course as a teacher, not a trainee. Slightly amazed I have to point his out: that the remark was tongue in cheek.

Of course she should be supported and most mentors spend huge amounts of unpaid and unrecognised time and effort with trainees to give back what they received.

But all I read into the OP is that she's coming in at a busy time of year and feels a bit in the way. I think that's normal, because teachers are usually swamped and because it's hard when you are new.

I used it as a sign of not being as welcoming

But it’s a sign of totally unrealistic expectations.

they have asked me to come in as a requirement for the course

So you have insufficient school experience, and the school has said that you need some before you start training?

It’s standard to expect trainees to have some school experience. Generally it’s not part of your training. I did a day in a totally random school.

Being shat on as a trainee isn’t par for the course but neither is your mentor having lunch with you.

In September it will be all timetabled and organised. There will be inductions into how the school works and there will be other trainees to hang out with and have lunch with. You’ll be part of the department then.

Please don’t feel, as some have indicated here, that being ´shat on’ as a trainee teacher is somehow par for the course. It isn’t. Ignore the unfriendliness of your mentor and behave with professionalism. Don’t be afraid to ask for the things you need (e.g. lesson observations, regular mentor meetings, etc.) come September if these aren’t forthcoming. Involve the person responsible for student teachers in the school and your training provider if need be. I had one amazing mentor and one absolute bitch. It’s a tough job and nobody needs it to be made tougher by unnecessary unpleasantness. Good luck.

starting in september.

That’s the key bit.

A PGCE student last year was holding a job offer from my school, went to another interview and they also offered them a job. PGCE student chose my school ‘because the maths team are so lovely and supportive’. So y’know, I can retain trainees and hack teaching.

Your tone is incredibly patronising and dismissive of teachers. I can see why you rubbed up your mentors the wrong way.

I didn’t say that schools were doing trainees a favour. Schools get money for trainees (this can lead to schools taking on too many trainees, beyond the capacity of the department to support them properly). But the OP is not a trainee yet, the school isn’t being paid, and letting her in to do school experience is a favour.

In September, the school will have a programme set up for trainees, the mentor will have guidelines to follow as to how to fill their time. But now it is just another unexpected thing to sort out.

Teachers are not the only public service that has very significant funding resource problems talk to social workers those working in child protection are underfunded and there is a massive e staffing crisis or how about those in the NHS both are “on their knees”. But you like everyone else in the public sector has to be realistic there will be no significant extra funding in the near future (I’m not saying this is right) or I suspect in the medium future. You cannot say because there’s not enough resources/money I’m not going to change my attitude to trainees/or think how we can do things differently. Surely your just shooting yourself in the foot? In my area we have a staffing crisis at the very least as significant as teaching and if the press are to be believed more significant. This is affecting trained and trainees my seniors have been forced to change their recruitment policy, we’ve just introduced flexible hours, hours per annum instead of hours per week, extensive and free in house training, golden hellos etc. overtime and incentives to those who work beyond their contracted hours even 3-4 years ago this was unheard of. Of course no manager wants to do this they want full time staff who cheerfully work their allotted hours happily take holiday out of school holidays work extra hours for nothing and fund their own training in their own time but ultimately if you retain trainees and trained and wish to attract and retain staff in a world where there are more vacancies than staff to fill them then they have no choice. Staff in general also realise that if you want to retain staff/colleagues and get your trainees to want to come back you have to treat each other decently. I’m already trying to persuade my current trainee to come back selling her the benefits of working for us, I recently interviewed a trainee near the end of her training she had three interviews and would be in a position to choose the job she wanted (I’m aware that this isn’t how teaching interviews work) as much as she was selling herself to us we were selling ourselves to her, and we’re delighted when she chose us she said “ I loved it when I was a student with you everyone was so lovely and helpful, unlike when I was a student at X (who’d also offered her a job). So maybe teachers need to “slap on a smile” and treat your trainees well and not go around making them feel as if you are doing “them a favour” (do you really think this noble I do hope not) or that they are a burden.

If they are to tackle this problem they are going to have stop saying this is how things are done we don’t want to change etc and start thinking how can we do things differently to attract new staff and get ourselves out of this crisis?

What is needed is proper funding, resources and time to do our jobs.

Telling teachers to slap on a smile and do even more isn’t going to keep them in the profession, let alone retain trainees when they realise what the deal is.

I work in a profession where Jo Public seems to think it’s acceptable to very rude when things are not going their way usually through no ones fault . Now in a senior position I encounter less rudeness because as is often the case rude people back down when someone in authority becomes involved but my junior colleagues and when I too was in a junior position had to or have to endlessly put up with rudeness.
You are right donquixote I shouldn’t tar all teachers with the same brush I offer sincere apologies to all those teachers out there who don’t treat their trainees badly and I met some great teachers who were lovely people who were keen to help but without a doubt there are a significant number out there who know no more about mentoring and how to treat trainees than I know about nuclear physics. I found it extraordinary that teachers don’t know how to teach and support their own trainees. Maybe it’s because of the age difference? Adult trainees don’t wish to be spoken to like secondary school children and the older you are and the more life experiences you’ve have the harder you will find this in comparison with a 22 year old straight out of uni.
Lastly it wasn’t heart breaking to fail to complete the training I simply returned to my old career, I quickly realised I’d made the wrong choice even before I got into a classroom, we live and learn I’d given it a go. It also opened my eyes to what actually goes on in schools (I have two children) I often say to friends “you have no idea what actually goes on” The amount of lessons being taken by cover staff who have no teaching qualifications or knowledge of the subject they were teaching and the sadly the many tedious boring lessons that I observed in many schools, sometimes I used to look around at the pupils they were bored with the lesson as was I. Ni wonder pupils are disillusioned and fed up with with school and the obsessive focus on exam preparation from very early on (not the teachers fault). I often read on here that children in private schools are spoon fed to answer exam questions this may be the case I can’t comment but I saw endless spoon feeding in the state sector.
The ones I felt sorry for those who were career changing due to redundancy etc or had given up good jobs to pursue a dream of being a teacher and we’re going to find it hard to get back into their d jobs. Many like me left within a few months disillusioned and demoralised many were very upset it’s hard to admit you’ve made the wrong choice (as I said over 2/3rds of the cohort failed to finish I’ve spoken to other trainer teachers who recount similar numbed) and then to not be effortlessly walking into another job.
Perhaps recruitment of trainer teachers needs to be closely scrutinised. It’s inevitable that the large bursaries attached to some subject will attract some who are just doing it for the money we had two on our course who openly admitted this, some one dropped out but deliberately delayed leaving to get the double payment in February or others waited for the payment at the beginning of a month and left the next day. Another finished the training just about passed but had never had any intention of staying they lived with their parents paid a small amount for their keep and had managed to save £15000 a deposit on a flat this is what they’d planned to do. I find this unacceptable. I don’t know how you weed out those people but for those who genuinely want to be teachers but realise they’ve made a mistake I’m don’t know if it’s possible to improve selection to weed then out this save a lot of time wasting on both sides.

I knew within a few days that it was not going to work and I complained to the SCITT but to no avail.

Frankly I grew tired of hearing how hard they worked, as if they are different to everyone else. Or their endless moaning about holidays, the “I haven’t had a holiday since coming back in Sept” line began to get irritating.

I would have thought schools would be bending over backwards and rolling out the red carpet to those doing work experience

I found teachers to be very negative and aggressive.

IMO Teachers need to change their attitudes.

Forgetthecareerchange I'm sorry you failed your PGCE. I know from experience that it's a difficult undertaking and heartbreaking to fail. Teaching is very language based, so it can be harder when English is not your first language.

I'm surprised you think that all members of a particular profession are negative and aggressive and need to change their attitude. It's seems unlikely to me- I have found teachers to be as varied as any other group.

I’ve met numerous rude people over the years

I wonder whether there is some other reason why you found so many people to be rude? Was there a common factor in all these interactions?

Noble I suspect it’s attitude that many career changers find an anathema. Also you may find this hard to believe but teaching is not the only profession on its knees but others professions are learning that If they are to tackle this problem they are going to have stop saying this is how things are done we don’t want to change etc and start thinking how can we do things differently to attract new staff and get ourselves out of this crisis?
I work as part of a large professional multi disciplinary team, all of us our “on our knees” staffing or lack of it is a major problem that if it continues will have disastrous effect. Some professions have not been keen to embrace change having had a long history of “we’ve always done it this way” or “it was good enough for me when I was training” ethos but that gets you no where, in fact it just exacerbates the problem so w’ve all had to embrace change and in fact are expected too by our employers and by our governing bodies. This includes how we treat our trainees we are moving away from the one size fits all learning system when the vast majority of trainees were 18 year undergraduates with little life/work experience we now have offer flexible tailored learning take into consideration people different styles of learning, acknowledge that some come with useful skills learned in other jobs and that many are juggling a home life as well. All professions now offer extra help and support to all who struggle (for whatever reason). Like teachers we are not paid extra to do it and often do it in our own time or whilst juggling very demanding jobs but none of us and that includes teachers can afford to loose to many of our trainees.

In a profession that’s on its knees, quite frankly what is not needed is any more ‘Teachers just need to....’

”mentors and mentor” = mentor and mentee.!

Noble whilst I totally agree the those coming from successful careers in senior positions can find being at the “bottom of the rankings* very difficult. They like everyone else regardless of their ranking are entitled to commonal garden courtesy and respect from those they work with.
I have mentored many students over the years those starting out in their careers, career changers and those from overseas. Some are amazing most are very good and a few are frankly hopeless. Like teachers we have another “priority” we are understaffed and I work in a faced paced stressful environment, and we don’t volunteer to be mentor it’s expected of us. As a teacher I’m pretty sure you are aware that the frankly hopeless will never learn in a negative environment, we work really hard to support them, if necessary we handhold and baby sit we do this because their university expects us to do this and because everyone should be given a chance to achieve. Some blossom and go from being hopeless to amazing, other become very good and a few remain hopeless and either leave or are asked to leave. It’s sad when the latter occurs but at least we know we tried to help.
Those who change their often successful careers to train to be teachers have taken a very big decision few if any have done it on a whim they have researched teaching carefully. Yes the bursary is an incentive how else could you even consider undertaking the training as in my case and in the case of many others it was significantly less than was being earned in a previous job. Most IME are really keen to make it work, I doubt they are really expecting the red carpet to be rolled out but to be treated as a third class citizen by their mentors and others with little or nothing to offer to teaching is very demoralising. I personally don’t think I would ever have made a good teacher, I realised this within a few weeks of starting because the general ethos in schools just didn’t suit me, and my mentor was always telling me how useless I was and I was inclined to agree! But many who like me came from another occultation and then like me left after a few months I think would have made excellent and enthusiastic teachers, they didn’t have a problem with the general ethos, but they did need the right level of support and yes maybe baby sitting and hand holding in the beginning but surely teachers at the very least should view it as short term pain for long term gain?
IMO Teachers need to change their attitudes. As I’ve said the attitude the Op experienced is in my experience sadly not uncommon. You have a staffing a crisis in teaching, career changers have a lot to offer if you fail to embrace this your staffing crisis will only worsen. Over 2/3rds of those starting their PGCE with me left before the end of the training most were career changers this is an appalling figures. They were mainly in shortage subjects yes on big bursaries so a total waste of money as well. I have done a little research into this area since and I’ve found this is not uncommon, most complain of poor support especially when they started. Maybe career changers do need a little extra support and help in beginning is that a bad thing if with time they become effective teachers? Of course the extra support should not just come from their mentors but their training provider as well (safely missing in my experience) I genuinely believe like my frankly useless trainees given time and the right support and let’s face a mentor is the best person to give this most would trainees would become at the very least “very good”. Those who don’t and then leave mentors and mentor will know that everything had been done to to try and help them achieve the required standard.

I’ve found my colleagues to be brilliantly humoured and endlessly supportive over the years. I know the mentors in my department were lavished with gifts and cards when our trainees just left (as was I as they took one of my classes).

We have had issues in the past where sometimes trainees have come in expecting the red carpet rolled out, like they are doing us a favour - the massive bursary given to maths trainees doesn’t help with this perception. Trainees cause a lot of work for schools and individual teachers and it’s not really a job for people who need to be babysat and told they’re marvellous.
It can also be very difficult for people who have had senior roles in other careers to find themselves busted to the bottom of the rankings, not knowing what they are doing and yes, that they’re a bit rubbish (everyone is a bit rubbish for the first couple of years at least).

The kids are the priority, so yes, you’ll need to hit the ground running.

I found teachers to be very negative and aggressive. Frankly I grew tired of hearing how hard they worked, as if they are different to everyone else. Or their endless moaning about holidays, the “I haven’t had a holiday since coming back in Sept” line began to get irritating. My DH like many only gets four weeks a year he hadn’t had a holiday since June and his next holiday was the compulsory 8 days he takes at Xmas! Or “we have to take our holiday during the school holidays” line. Really hadn’t you worked that out before you started the training/job? In my job where annual leave during school holidays is very limited one of the biggest complaints from staff is that they can’t take holiday during the school holidays when their children are at home be it for an actual holidays and child care.
I’m not disputing teachers work hard that’s it’s stressful or that they are poorly paid or that their is endless paperwork and I wouldn’t do it for all the money in the world but back in the real world many people work as hard if not harder are equally poorly paid, are also up to their eyeballs in pointless paperwork and have as or more stressful jobs. But In my now extensive experience of a wide variety of number of jobs in a wide variety of settings most workers are not as aggressive unsupportive and frankly unpleasant as many teachers seem to be.

The OP says the mentor is in the school she will be teaching in. It’s not a random “can I come in and observe please?”

The posts on MN from teachers are often quite aggressive and say how awful the job is. If they behave like this then I’m not surprised. It’s hardly supportive or even remotely encouraging to others. They put people off and I’m surprised anyone wants to do it! Who wants to spend hours with people like this?

I don’t think it matters that the OP is currently doing work experience in fact given the dire state of teacher numbers including the numbers who drop out of their PGCE then I would have thought schools would be bending over backwards and rolling out the red carpet to those doing work experience.. I did quite a bit of work experience or observation days in 4/5 different schools before starting my PGCE and everyone I met (not my mentor) couldn’t have been nicer they were happy to answer loads of questions and all had lunch with me. It was because I’d had such a positive experiences that I did the PGCE. OP I can tell you that it’s not just you and who experience this a number of my fellow PGCE students felt the same (and this caused some to drop out) and I spoke to others from other SCITTs who made similar comments. Teachers work in this weird environment where the are regularly being monitored for poor performance and being criticised they feel totally over burdened with work and therefore many seems to pass all of this into their mentees giving then little or no support and believing that negative criticism is the way forward.
I hope you have better luck with you training than me and my fellow student the drop out rate is often pretty horrific.