Bus driver accuses 12 yr old of criminality and orders him off bus!

To those banging on about this child having a valid ticket “like everyone else” - travel is free on buses in London for children age 15 and under. TfL has a duty of care to children. This driver was being a belligerent bully particularly as he had the boys teacher to vouch for him. MN at its meanest.

"What did the driver expect your son to do,"

Presumably to travel with a valid ticket - same expectation for everyone.

Cancelling Zips is about the only sanction TfL has for antisocial behaviour (other than prosecution, but they don't always want to go straight for that for teens) so it's not surprising that there is zero tolerance on those who present cancelled cards.

I don't think TfL tell schools when Zips are withdrawn, so a teacher's intervention would add nothing helpful. And doesn't alter the basic fact that you cannot travel without a ticket.

So everyone on the bus would expect the person to pay by card, or get off the bus to fetch valid ticket, or get off the bus and make another travel arrangement.

"...the driver accused him of being an anti social delinquent who was involved in criminality and that TfL..."

The driver was probably in the right in many respects but should not have said the above, that was appalling. Neither should he have badmouthed the teacher. What an unpleasant, ignorant man.

I would thank the school, destroy the invalid one and hope that the school's complaint gets looked at properly.

just as an aside though I am jealous your kids get to travel free. they don't in many parts of the country. bus fare from 5 and 6 here with our two companies. costs a fortune if you need to get the bus to school so my daughter will walk the 4 mile round trip to school rather than get the bus as £3 a day adds up. we are lucky we are near enough that walking is an option.

The bus driver was in the wrong! The son was 12.
I know at rail stations they have a duty of care to under 16s and will provide a rail warrant to ensure that they can get home if they lose their ticket.

The teacher was wrong, not the driver. Your son did not have a valid Oyster card. The driver could not allow him to travel no matter what the teacher or anyone else said. Calling the driver unprofessional and mad minded for doing what his employers require him to do is thoroughly unreasonable.

Bus drivers in London are such divas- I have been on many buses where the bus driver has turned off the engine and ordered everyone off due to some minor transgression of one passenger.

What did the driver expect your son to do, walk instead? Like the police would’ve attended for a 12 year old with an invalid oyster

OP I would email thanks to the school and a complaint to TFL but don’t expect much- drivers only behave like that because they know they can

Of course he had 'predetermined judgement' !

Or rather he didn't, not as an individual. He acted exactly in line with TfL rules about denying carriage to those whose cards flag as invalid.

The driver was not at fault here

Not arrest - 'attest'

"I think the driver was unreasonable once he was put in the picture by the teacher."

The teacher could arrest to age, but not whether Zip had been suspended by TfL, and whatever the archer said, it does not overturn the conditional no of carriage, which is that those who require a valid ticket but do not have one, must leave the bus.

That is why I stated above that the teacher's intervention is irrelevant. Thus is not about age. It is because the passenger presented a ticked which flagged as invalid, which is normally only those whose cards have been suspended. Drivers are under very strict instructions not to permit those with invalid cards from proceeding (unless they pay). If they ditherwise, it wouid make the penalty useless.

Your DS made a mistake. It was his fault he had the wrong card. It was his fault he argued with the diver instead of getting off the bus and sorting his journey some other way (pay fare or fetch correct card).

I think the driver was unreasonable once he was put in the picture by the teacher.

My experience of TFL drivers is that they are rubbish. They seem incapable to following the Highway Code, eg stoipping across bus stops when they can see in advance there is no room on the other side. It's clearly down to training. The driver had no right to be rude to the teacher.

Anyway I thought you got free transport in London if you are under 15 and the only reason they have a card is so that 16 year olds don't pretend to be 14? Surely a 12 year old doesn't look 16 and the driver could use common sense? Is this really worth disrupting everyone else's journeys for? Calling the police? Seriously?

If your son is very distressed by this, you need to focus on helping him deal with life and building resilience. It was a non event.

I don't think you will get very far with your complaint. The driver was absolutely right to refuse to allow your son to travel with an invalid Oyster card. When your son did not leave the bus the driver did what I believe drivers are instructed to do - turned off the engine and ordered everyone off. If your son had left the bus when told to by the driver there would not have been a public scene.

I don't know what you think should have happened. It is not the bus driver's fault your son had the wrong Oyster card. If the driver had allowed your son to travel with that card and his employers had found out he could have been disciplined for it. And your son would have had a problem the next day when boarding the bus to go to school as he would still have had the wrong card.

The only possible cause for complaint is the driver accusing your son of anti-social behaviour but it depends on what he said. If it was something like, "for all I know you've been banned for anti-social behaviour", that was a perfectly reasonable comment.

If this were my son I would be getting him to apologise to the bus company for causing a delay by not leaving the bus when told to by the driver.

Can't see anything to raise with school? You say the school hasn't been in touch I'm confused why you think they would? 🤔

He should have got off the bus and fetched the correct card when asked. That would have avoided all fuss and embarrassment. Or were you expecting him to return to school on an invalid card the next day as well?

Driver is in the right.

The commonest reason for children travelling without a valid Zip card is that it has been suspended or withdrawn as a sanction for antisocial behaviour. The child would still have the card, and it wouid behave exactly as DS's did.

Drivers may have some sympathy and use their discretion for those entirely without a card, but not for those with Ines that respond as a withdrawn one.

The teacher's intervention is irrelevant - schools are not informed when Zips are withdrawn, and this isn't about his age.

Your DS shouid have got off the bus - drivers don't turn engines off until someone has been arguing the toss for several minutes.

You will not get far with your complaint. You need to destroy invalid Zip cards straight away so they cannot be used in error. And teach your son what he shouid do when he has made an error, which is apologise and get off the bus. Then find a work-around for his journey.

I know that sounds unsympathetic to your DS, and I do realise he was upset. But he was also in the wring and then compounded it by arguing.

TfL have the right to withdraw the validity of a zip oyster card, which may have been what the bus driver was talking about.

If they do this, he would no longer have travel concessions, so perhaps advise him to carry the bus fare with him, just in case.

Check the T&C.

Why didn't he have the valid card on him? Also, is this his version of events or the teachers?
I'd also email the school to ask them to speak to the teacher about what happened before you go all guns blazing to the bus company, but certainly then speak to them if it proves that your son is accurate in his retelling of events. They will most likely have VT of the incident anyhow.

wanted other's thoughts on how this should be followed up (with the school)

I think just an email thanking and praising the teacher would be fine.