Ban the Booths

I am comforted when I hear that disruptive and/or dangerous/frightening children (whether down to poor behaviour or an underlying SEN) are being removed from the classroom and corridors. Teachers have an almost impossible job given limited resources.

My education was blighted by being used as some sort of 'therapeutic buffer' for kids who did not or could not learn and instead caused hours of disruption and damage to property and health (but hey, they were in mainstream school in mainstream classes so all is well, yeah? ). This was in the late 80s/early 90s when budgets were similarly squeezed and 'additional help' for such kids was non-existent. It wasn't the kids fault if they had SEN and even the other ones were feral as a result of shit parenting but it sure to hell wasn't my fault either. But me and the other 'good' kids suffered, for years.
Isolation booths might be right for some situations and far too blunt an instrument in others but can we think of the human rights of the kids who just want to learn in safety and relative peace?

Woman you are coming across as totally batshit. This ‘booth’ practice is common in many workplaces. Dividers between desks to minimise distractions.

Are you crusading against them too?

National we pick on the shirt because it’s silly nonsense. A safe boundary for kids to rebel against.

Among other reasons.

Interesting that so many of old arguments for corporal punishment are being used to justify this practice.

Until corporal punishment was ruled illegal in state schools in 1986.

Is this 'Booth' practice common in British private schools, or just in state schools?

Picking on an untucked shirt is silly nonsense - you are asking for trouble, but you know teachers are the experts that always get it right - we see that time and time again.

The booths are not a new thing though are they? I remember looking around oldest Ds's future secondary school back in early 2011 and they had a exclusion room with divider desks. This was a school that had been in the bottom 10 in the country until the new head had arrived. Ds ended up going to this school and he had the most amazing 7 years there. He had undiagnosed dyslexia and their pastoral care and the support they gave him was so good.

Youngest Ds is at our local grammar. The behaviour is dire and getting worse. The school have never really had to worry too much about behaviour but things are changing, consequently they don't have the guidance in place to support the staff. Ds frequently comes home and tells us of what has happened in lessons. Things getting thrown around the room, equipment getting thrown out of windows. This is top set at a grammar school. Not sure why so many at his school feel the need to disrupt others education.

parents of teenagers learn not to focus on silly nonsense like this because it leads to more upset than it was worth - schools should learn to do the same,
Because parenting your own child is totally the same as running an organisation of 1000-2000 teenagers and giving them an education.

General moan - What is it with people thinking their personal opinion based on their child is somehow more insightful and valuable than a whole profession of people trained to do a job?
We get it all the time in schools. I don't tell hospitals how to run or my hairdressers and yet people seem to think that having gone to school themselves they have all this wisdom and simple solutions that thousands of schools just haven't thought of.

parents of teenagers learn not to focus on silly nonsense like this because it leads to more upset than it was worth

Like teachers of teenagers don’t know anything about dealing with large groups of them.

I think it's a bit misleading calling them an isolation "booth" or "isolation chamber" as someone earlier in the thread did. It's a desk with dividers and other kids and a teacher in the same room. It's not some sort of solitary confinement tank.

Whilst the issue isn't truly untucked shirts etc, the general "pffft, uniform is only uniform" attitude is a huge contagion if you talk like this in front of your children. You're enabling them to be defiant, and flippant and glib about an essential 'rule'. Where do you draw the line? You are part of the problem. I am not part of the problem - my kids wear the stupid uniform - they behave in an exemplary way in class, they are not rude to their teachers, they work hard but I won't bloody lie to them that I think uniform is important. I will tell them that the school thinks it's important - but I have no idea why for example ankle boots in the winter are wrong or why they insist on an untucked summer shirt - I think it's pretty daft and so do my kids - how could we think otherwise, it is stupid! - but they still comply - regardless of what we think! Picking on an untucked shirt is poking the bear - parents of teenagers learn not to focus on silly nonsense like this because it leads to more upset than it was worth - schools should learn to do the same, a child causing disruption in class should be dealt with using booths if necessary but picking on stupid shit like minor uniform infringements is totally unnecessary.

I suspect that there are a few commentators on this thread that have absolutely no idea what working in a school is.

Whilst the issue isn't truly untucked shirts etc, the general "pffft, uniform is only uniform" attitude is a huge contagion if you talk like this in front of your children. You're enabling them to be defiant, and flippant and glib about an essential 'rule'. Where do you draw the line? You are part of the problem.

As far as booths/isolation being inhumane, I challenge you to look compliant, respectful and ready-to-learn pupils in the eye with a shred of fucking humanity when their 4th or 5th lesson for the day is being dominated and disrupted by pupils who simply do not care about learning. Last Friday, I had 4 boys removed for challenging behaviour. One had stolen a girl's phone from her bag and had it stored down his pants. Another has stolen someone else's make-up (stupidly expensive foundation - don't even get me started) and they only admitted it because the site manager came in to search bags. There was chaos. Swearing, laughing, attitude to Classmates, to me. This isn't uncommon. Decent kids are desperate to learn and their learning hours are being totally ruined. Will I recommend those 4 lads for
Isolation? Too bloody right.

I'm all for support and understanding but let's not forget we aren't social workers, counsellors not therapists. We're teachers trying to reach.

I agree with noble - parents at the very least need to sit at the back of the class/turn up and see first hand what their child is like. They then need to take them home. We put up with SO much, it's unreal.

On my more irritable days i wonder if there is a special place in hell for 'cool' teachers. Their arrogance is ridiculous because they honestly think they are down with the kids and the kids love them, but then you hear how students talk about them behind their back and it's all ' haha Mr Brown, what a legend, as if you lot have to do work... we just piss around whilst he tells us stories about how he did cocaine at ReadingFest when he was 21... what a lad'. There's no real respect from the disruptive students and all the other students keep everything crossed they don't get him at GCSE.

Meanwhile there's perfectly friendly teachers who are appropriately strict and the students grumble about at times but they are well regarded and students enjoy being taught by them.

I like the booths. It means disruptive children are removed so the rest of the class can get on and do the work, rather than have their whole education blighted by disruptive behaviour.
Children's whole future depends on the education they get at school. Bad behaviour by others jeopardises the quality of the well behaved children's future.

So true Lola, especially the cool teacher bit 😳

Most sensible parents and educationalists have no issue with isolation being part of a behaviour policy. They know that SEND needs to be addressed and accept that's a potential issue if a school doesn't think it's policy through, but they dont have some weird crusade against a behaviour policy.

In my experience the people strongly opposed to it are:

• behaviour consultants with an ideological agenda and a product to sell
• teachers who consider themselves to be the 'cool teacher' who claims never to have any behaviour issues in their class (but that's usually because they undermine whole school policy and take the lead from the disruptive kids). Often found in the staff room smugly claiming 'Timmy is never a problem for me... though it really helps if you let him listen to music during class so I put his fave playlist on for us all to listen to'
• parents of badly behaved students who turn up in the local press talking about how unfair it is their child with a persistent record of defiance was put in isolation for 'forgetting to tuck her shirt in'

LolaSmiles
It's a totally ridiculous campaign led by a handful of consultants who don't teach anymore peddling their own ideological agenda against schools who do thibgs differently to their snake oil magic bullet of choice.

I agree wholeheartedly with this ^

noblegiraffe mentioned paul dix upthread, I quite like his thoughts on the subject but they don't work on there own.

Like all teachers I have read many many books on behaviour and take what works for me out of the materials given.

But what I find so annoying with these consultants is they all claim that they know best, yet only put forward a portion of the solution.

I wouldn't want my kids' school to get rid of them as I think the behaviour would deteriorate if they didn't have sanctions and the school would be less safe and there would be more disruption and less learning going on. No thanks!

Child made to sit quietly and work by themselves, the horror

I know right. In a warm safe classroom, supervised, able to go to the loo, have their lunch and a drink. Bet they're made to sit on chairs too. Awful treatment.

What would be interesting would be a test case on another UN article - the right to an education. For those whose education is constantly disrupted by others' poor behaviour.

It's a totally ridiculous campaign led by a handful of consultants who don't teach anymore peddling their own ideological agenda against schools who do thibgs differently to their snake oil magic bullet of choice.

Starts off as some consultants bitching online about schools who they don't like and don't agree with (probably because if schools manage to have a calm school without buying their books and training programmes that might affect their earning power).
Then it becomes an issue with isolation booths and how the very existence of isolation booths is some kind of human rights abuse and silent working is so unfair. Then staff pointed out that there is a time and a place for them and you don't even teach anymore.

Then that didn't work so they had a few weeks of 'oh sorry we didn't mean all isolation dividers, we just mean deep confinement booths. Someone did a search for these online and couldn't find any, but snake oil reps need to find ways to sell their wares.

Then it became look for some examples of a strategy being used ineffectively, zoom in on a few case studies and spin the whole thing as ' but we are only doing this for the vulnerable children and the children with special needs'.

If a policy is implemented poorly or a strategy isn't working properly then it should be open for question, but I won't be paying any attention to a campaign led by a group of consultants with a vested interest in shaming any school who does things differently (even resorting to creating an anonymous Twitter page this weekend to publicise Ofsted notes from a school they don't like after doing an FOI request).

These are people who think having a menu of greetings on the door and letting pupils decide to hi 5 you, hug you, shake your hand, do a secret handshake etc is the key to solving defiance in your classroom. They are people who tell teachers that they shouldn't expect students to be polite and courteous until the teacher has proven to the student they are worth respecting. They are people who think that if a child is being defiant then the adults need to change and find out what the child wants and give in. These people are not and have never been about making reasonable and appropriate adjustments for students with SEND needs. Their whole philosophy is that it is wrong for anyone to expect basic levels of human decency and maners because staff must earn polite behaviour. And they want to charge schools a fortune to call them in.

I'm no worshiper of the heavy zero tolerance schools, but I'm highly cynical of the motives of those behind this campaign.

@woman19

Teachers who promote this practice are presumably covered by their trades unions for any legal actions against them.

Teachers do not promote this practice nor do they send children to isolation.

Teachers report issues and the SLT makes the decision backed by the parents.

And yes we are talking about the naughty step, sending children to their room and any other practice that promotes "isolation".

And as someone that supports the removal of isolation booths what do you recommend that they are replaced with?

Maybe if parents want to ban isolation booths then they have to agree to pick their kid up from school and take them home if they piss about and get chucked out of lessons?

As long as parents don't moan after the ban. If kids are disrupting lessons and your child isn't learning. If a child has SEND or other issues as to why they can't behave they need extra support. In whatever form they may take, smaller classes, TA support, specialist school even. Throwing them back into a mainstream lesson is not a better alternative to 'the booths'. It is not fair on them, never mind others. How about a petition to increase support for these kids? How about stopping to think about why the use of isolation booths has become so prevalent so quickly 🤔

If parents regularly use 'isolation booth' type practices on their children I would imagine that social services would take a keen interest.

What, like sending DD to her room? By herself? Shit.

And the telling a child to tuck their shirt in the minute they walk into a class is inflammatory - it just seems like such a pointless thing to get excited about - Noble gave the example and to me it just seemed like a recipe for disaster...every parent knows you fight the battles worth fighting, not bloody tucking shirts in.

I send my kids to school with the correct uniform, they are hard working and a pleasure to tyeach - so I'm told but there is no choice - wear school uniform or don't attend school - this whole choice thing is such a joke!