South London school applications - anyone else baffled and bit stressed?

www.lambeth.gov.uk/schools-and-education/school-admissions/how-offers-were-made-for-lambeth-secondary-schools-on

The Lambeth school offers are on the link above
You don't need to be Catholic to get into La Retraite currently - last year 2/3 of the places on offer went to Non-Catholics

La Retraite still does very well. But I don’t know anyone who went there from my DC primary, even though it’s quite close to us. I didn’t even look at it- I thought Catholic school, no chance. Maybe its entry criteria have changed.

Wow, has La Retraite declined in popularity? It used to head up all the Lambeth League tables, does it still?

It seems easier for girls as well because there are so many girls-only schools, even if some are religious. There aren’t as many boys’ schools- I can only think of Ernest Bevin and London Nautical off the top of my head.

I stand corrected meditrina re faith schools, obvs by putting "community" category at bottom admissions priority, any remotely popular faith school can avoid taking any "community" applicants at all - a total swizz, what?! My only direct experience is of my DC's CofE school which takes 50% "community" applicants plus 10% aptitude, so I guess only 40% faith based . . . Or is it that the remaining 90% after the 10% aptitude allocation is then divided 50/50 between faith and community, so 45% each?? I assumed faith schools of any description were legally obliged to do that.
In our case anyway it does make for a genuinely mixed intake in every conceivable way, but that is also down to location.
Ashcroft and Chestnut Grove are still v popular, or were 2 years ago. CG had around 150 applicants for their 30 aptitude places, Ashcroft around 250 for 21, I recall.

@TheRedBarrows la retraite is 40% non catholic now and has a 3km catchment so that is possible now. I live on its doorstep but chose Burntwood over it.

But yes BTG - people have no chance unless catholic.

gabster - interesting that they now let you know the results first- makes more sense.

Another thing to bear in mind - the demographic in the area has changed a lot over the last few years. From my DC primary school only about three children from a cohort of 60 went to independents. Now it’s more like a quarter- so my neighbour tells me. The independents are expanding.

Schools go in and out of fashion. In my DC day the desired general school was Chestnut Grove. Before that it was Ashcroft in Putney. Burntwood wasn’t so popular. People who lived on the doorstep didn’t want it - tended to go to independents.

I think you should get Burntwood from where you are. A friend of my DC was offered it as it filtered down the waiting list during the summer term at primary and took it over their art place at Chestnut Grove. They were further away than you. As pp said, children from DC primary ended up going to about 40 schools.

I only know one person going through the process this year. They like Trinity Academy in Brixton, which didn’t exist in my day.

BTG , an oversubscribed co-Ed Catholic school, admits ‘children of other faiths’ in the last category, 9.

‘Looked after’ kids don’t get a look in, unless Catholic, until Category 5.

La Retraite, an over subscribed girls catholic school in the area, has ‘of other faith’ as last category, too.

In both cases after various categories of Catholic admittance, and Eastern and other European Orthodox churches (many eligible community members in the locality).

So the OP is being realistic when she says no chance. There really isn’t. And attending mass less than 3 times a month for three years prior to admissions would put you at risk at BTG.

"Even your local Catholic school will have to admit by law (I believe) some local children on that basis, irrespective of faith; so if you like the school and are very close by, you could probably consider that too."

This isn't unite right. All RC schools (indeed all faith schools) must have an 'all other applicants' category, which is usually the final one. But they do not have a 'quota' of community places

Some choose to, but the only VA schools I've directly known to have a quota of community places alongside their faith places are CofE ones.

OP: you need to check what the school's admission criteria actually are, not assume there is legal requirement for community places (there isn't) or that the school near you has chosen to have some.

Kids from our primary go to about 40 different secondaries! It doesnt narrow the numbers much. I did a spreadsheet last year of schools within an hour of travel and there's 96. Though now have 6-12 to look at (no chance of any religious places, which helps)

I think the key question, already raised by a previous poster but worth repeating is, where do the children from your DCs primary school go to at secondary?
Even if you aren't convinced by the schools they usually go to, definitely go to open days and have a look. You may be pleasantly surprised and you may want to have them as the "local almost certain back up plan" on your list of preferences.

@daisypond - they've changed timing of Wandsworth test so you know your score before application closing so that problem has disappeared.

OP - I would look at Burntwood - you will get in from where you are. Also the chestnut grove arts and language places. Dunraven May also be possible on a late entry place. Don't be disheartened. Look around and as someone says make sure you can get into one you will be somewhat happy with.

What an interesting thread - Mumsnet at its finest!

Even once offers are out in the March you can still apply to a school not on your original list and you go in the wait list according to their selection criteria. yes, this is true. We had no idea this was possible beforehand. Even though we had not put them on the list (because we had majorly underestimated the chance of an academically selective place) we asked to be put on the wait list for a place - and were offered it.

As op have said - yes it is stressful, and yes there is a lot of movement after offers day.

We are in a ‘dead zone’ in SE london - just outside the catchment of the school everyone locally wants. My DC goes to a school that’s not one of the ones people ‘talk about’ but I can honestly say they are lovely, my DC with SEN has been really well supported and I have been pleasantly surprised by the lovely teachers obviously enjoying their job.

The London councils all publish ‘heat maps’ which will show you where most kids from your area go to. For instance if you look at Kingsdale’s it’s really wide because they have a lottery system. Lots of kids from right up to SE1 go there (and yes it’s one of the ones people talk about as worth going to).

Be cool while those around you lose their head OP- I know it’s hard as hell. Even once offers are out in the March you can still apply to a school not on your original list and you go in the wait list according to their selection criteria (so if you were next door you’d be top of the list before those that applied in Oct). You can even change in the September - many do.

My advice is to not worry for now, and in September go and visit lots - you’ll be surprised and may like ones you discounted or hate ones you thought would be perfect.

Also some of the music and language scholarships test aptitude not knowledge. Kids who’ve done lots of music may fail and I’ve known bilingual kids fail the language tests. Have a look at Chestnut Grove, Kingsdale and Norwood for this

In the end, it actually didn’t seem to matter much where children ended up. I know it matters at the time, but looking back I wish I hadn’t worried so much. Those children who went to schools that other people wouldn’t touch with a barge pole seemed to do well and went off to good universities. There also seemed to be a tendency for people not to like their nearest school, even though for those further away it was a good choice.

OP, it seems daunting but you just need to take it step by step.

Go to the open days, (but don’t expect staff to be able to advise on admissions distances).

Then make a list of the schools you like, in order of your preference.

Then work out what you need to do to apply to that school

As pp have said, distances given are on National Offer Day. They are wider by the end of the summer term, with places coming up as late as September, as people move house over the summer hols.

What are your closest schools?

Does your Dd have any specific talents or aptitude?

If you live near BTG, then the only non-Catholics admitted in years are those with a EHCP.
However other secondaries that people near there apply for are Dunraven, Norwood, Elmgreen, Chestnut Grove, and now Woodmansterne. There's a Lambeth Test for banding as well as the Wandsworth one, but that's just a formality - low bands possibly take further distances, even. What the banding tests do is exclude the families too disorganised/uninvolved to make their child sit them on a Saturday in late Oct/early Nov...

There are kids from Streatham who are at Wilsons or the Sutton grammars, but not nearly as many as 5-10 years ago.

(I'm clearly near you and in the same boat)

In our case, we bought into the hype of how difficult it all would be and how impossible it would be to get into Graveney etc that we didn’t even put them down. But when we knew the score DC got in the Wandsworth test we realised they would have got in easily. This was a few years ago now.

Did this two years ago and like you my DC arrived in final term of Y5 without me having thought much about it at all (how hard could it be??!) Then it hit me - hard; the following months were stressful but also fascinating, and we came out of it fine as I think do most people here in London . . . There are actually a range of great comprehensive schools, most of them not "fashionable"/frequently name-checked on MN, but still well up to the job especially for any child with engaged, motivated parents, I would say. They will be delighted to have you.
Two basic rules to cling to amid the application madness:

1. Include at least one "Dead Cert" school in your list of 6, one you know you will get a place at. It can be a Dead Cert for a range of reasons, but most likely because you live well within the catchment area. People are saying here that London has no such thing, but that is rubbish; there will be several schools very local to you which you would be certain to get a place at, unless (like a certain over-hyped Dulwich school) they don't operate a catchment at all, only a lottery. But that's very much the exception. Even your local Catholic school will have to admit by law (I believe) some local children on that basis, irrespective of faith; so if you like the school and are very close by, you could probably consider that too. You could also have been promised a "scholarship" or aptitude place at a school, anywhere, on the basis of an aptitude test. Aptitude tests (which include the Wandsworth, although that being a quasi 11+ exam is rather different in character) take place throughout September of Y6, usually on Saturdays, and you'll get the result before you have to submit your application form end of Oct - that's the point. Though do note that just because your child has done rather well in an aptitude test, doesn't make a place at that school a Dead Cert. The school will make it clear to you before end Oct if your child definitely has a place on that basis. Often, they will tell you if it's likely, but sometimes they won't know for sure.
2. Put your 6 schools absolutely in the order that you prefer them. Put your dream-fantasy, not-a-hope-in-hell choices first, and your Dead Cert at the bottom in 6th place, if you like. It won't make a bit of difference to your chances at either; the schools themselves can't and don't want to know in which order you placed them. That's your council's job, and their computers really will operate on the assumption that you want any higher-placed school over any lower-placed one (where both can admit you) and offer you that one place. So off you go - get visiting schools, reading their website admissions pages, filling in aptitude test application forms (if appropriate) and enjoy it! (It is possible . . ) If you are doing the Wandsworth test, print out a couple of practice papers over the summer, just to prepare your DC for the 3-hour long shock treatment of it. But bear in mind that unless they are a total 11+ natural, you are unlikely to get close to Graveney (effectively Wandsworth's grammar school) on the basis. Your DC will be competing against prep-schooled kids who've been practising NVR/whatevs for years. But sod Graveney! Wandsworth has many nicer schools IMO, as has south London as a whole, and that's the thing to remember in this process. . . Contrary to what many private school parents think, there isn't just one acceptable London state school or bust. Even your original 3rd preference (as in our case) can end up absolutely brilliant.

I’m not too far from you. I’m in Lambeth. I’ve been through the process and out the other end. There is a lot of movement after offer day because a large number will go to independents. Put what you want first, even if you think there’s little chance. Sit the Wandsworth test if you fancy any of their schools. Graveney or Burntwood if you’ve got a stab at the academic selection. You may be surprised. As pp suggested, languages or art test for an extra chance at Chestnut Grove. Don’t rule out Dunraven because you think you’re too far. Any other talents that your DD has, say, for music or sport or drama that might allow access to schools with selection for these? From where I am children went to a huge selection of state schools. If you are able to pay there will be a school you can access, though think hard if you want to go down this route. Places open up as well later on. I know someone who had their child in an independent but when a place became available at Dunraven they moved them.

Kingsdale might be worth a try as they have a lottery process

Chestnut Grove have art and language places - consider taking those extra tests

If you use Facebook - Streatham Mums Network is a very active group who will give you lots of opinions on the schools

Where do the kids from your primary go to?

...or even, not total no-hopers...

We learned that a) it is totally random

No, it isn't. There are rules which have to be followed, even if schools have leeway with the precise details of the policy that they set. The random bit is allowing preferences to be expressed and not being able to predict with complete accuracy the actions of the humans involved on the demand side of the equation.

b) once the Council give you an offer they don't give a shit, their role in the process is done

The local authority has to allow you certain freedoms- to allow you to express at least three preferences, in your personal ranking - but at the end of the day, does not have to comply with any of them if your DC does not rank highly enough against any of the schools' published admissions criteria. So, you can be unlucky and be squeezed out from a previously safe bet local school by e.g. a weirdly high influx of families with DC of your DC's age. Or you can predict in advance that you won't get any of your preferences, if you choose to name only schools where no child below criterion 4 has got a place for many years, but your DC only ranks under criterion 7 and so on. The LA has to find you a place somewhere, if you ask them to, but it doesn't have to be one of your preferences, if the requests cannot be met within the confines of the relevant legislation.

and c) the waiting lists are a useful way to get into the school you want.

See a) above. . Once movement happens somewhere (job change leading to relocation, place coming up at indie, ecision to home ed after all etc), it will cascade. Somehow, in some direction. And if your preferences weren't total no-jopers, eventually, it may well come to you.

I found the process incredibly stressful. We were initially offered a failing school in Peckham (27% pass at GCSE A-C) which we turned down flat. So we went on waiting lists for other schools (the best ones, closest to our address, we didn't get into) and got into a school in Dulwich, but we weren't entirely convinced by it. My daughter received another offer to another school out of Borough but only a 15 minute bus ride away, which has worked out really well because they support her interests amazingly. We learned that a) it is totally random b) once the Council give you an offer they don't give a shit, their role in the process is done and c) the waiting lists are a useful way to get into the school you want.