Head of St Pauls Girl’s School

That is quite funny. Although I might buck the trend, since I don't tell real life people where I went to school unless they ask (and which loon would ask a nearly fifty year old what school they went to) and also am not particularly high-flying!

No idea who all these Paulinas are who are so keen to tell everyone where they went to school.

I know more than a few Paulinas amongst my DCs' classmates' mothers. The speed and alacrity with which they drop the name appears to be inversely correlated with what they have achieved since they left high school.

Hope she's doing okay and that she graduates with top marks, considering the fees they charge.

Also, just one more thing.

I didn't send my daughter to St Paul's because I wanted her to get top marks - because I honestly believe that wherever she had gone to school she would have done well and achieved what she needed to achieve to get on and begin whatever she wants to do next. That is the kind of person she is. I wish I had half her drive and ability to get things done!

I sent her there because I thought she would really really enjoy it. And so far, that is working out extremely well.

I agree with the other parents here; there is another indie school that is praised to high heaven on MN but I know several parents and they have many and wide-ranging complaints! But it’s always open season on SPGS - and Paulinas - (and rarely are those criticising, actually school parents themselves).

It is people like Wayland that perpetuate a lot of ill feeling and misconceptions about Spgs with myopic viewpoints and no first hand experience. After we accepted the place for Dd we were terrified we had made the wrong decision based on all the negative remarks we received, largely from people with no girls at the school. The reality is nothing like it reads on these forums.

I can’t help feel its a bit disingenuous, a ploy to sell books. She could have changed the culture if she wanted to. Sure there are pushy parents but its a bit much for her to be complaining about pressure.

Oh, so @Wayland is just basing his or her opinions on walking past quite frequently. And scattergunning opinions not backed up by any actual facts about SPS and SPGS on other threads too. Luckily, as I have past and current experience of the school, I can make up my own mind and disagree pretty strongly with pretty much everything Wayland has said. I do think these types of post, free of any kind of facts or evidence, are enormously unhelpful to everyone not least those who make them who just end up sounding strange.

Also, "No jealousy at all here." is just seriously odd.

When SPGS gets the best academic exam results every year, it's quite hard to argue it isn't a bit pushy and focused on academic results, tbh. It's also impossible to argue that its academic results won't be a huge draw to pushy parents obsessed with academic achievement, the result inevitably being that there will be more pushy parents at the schools obtaining the best results than there are elsewhere.

There is plenty of evidence on Mumsnet of people arguing that if someone has a child who is not coping with the pressure in schools like this, and who is unhappy with the school's reaction to their child's stress response, that they are simply the wrong sort of person for that school and it is not the school's fault their child lacks robustness. Tbh, this indicates to me that pushy people are maybe not always very good at identifying their own characteristics or the characteristics of their chosen schools. But hey - you're not obliged to send your children there, so that's OK.

I think I'll just wait for Patrick Dereham's which may actually be worth reading.

So long as the Communist Party doesn't censor it

Glaciferous To answer your questions:

Did you go there, Wayland?

No, I did not.

Do you have any children there now?

No, I do not.

In which ways do you think the school has changed?

Like with most private schools, the fees have increased to the point where only the very rich can afford them. This means the talent pool from which the school can select has declined, and so they don't only get the best and brightest the way they used to. While the school will still make some effort to admit some students on bursaries, someone must pay for them. And so they will be admitting many girls who can pay the full fees (now £26,000 a year) even if they are not of the highest academic ability. And so the range of abilities they will have to cater to will have increased. It will be more difficult for them to tailor their academic regime to only the ablest.

Ultimately a school cannot simultaneously cater to the richest and the brightest. This, in my opinion, is why we need to reintroduce proper state-funded grammar schools that could cater to the brightest without having to worry about whether or not they could pay the fees.

I'm curious as a former Paulina.

No jealousy at all here. SPGS was very close to the school I attended. I knew some girls who were there. They all studied hard and earned their success. That being said, it was a very good exemplary school nonetheless. It enjoyed some very effective highmistresses in the past, such as Heather Bridgstoke, Janet Gough, and Elizabeth Diggory. But it takes just a decade or so of mediocre leadership for a school to slip in quality and focus.

with a child there now

Hope she's doing okay and that she graduates with top marks, considering the fees they charge.

(I haven't noticed much change in some areas and a lot in others - the vast majority of the change I've seen has been positive eg pastoral care).

Changes to any school can be subtle and gradual and can take place over a considerable time period. You generally won't notice a steady change in teaching practices, behavioural standards, or academic rigour if you only see things from one day to the next. But judging from what various people have told me, things have changed at St Paul's, mostly as a result of a steady shift in the nature of their student intake.

Did you go there, Wayland? Do you have any children there now? In which ways do you think the school has changed? I'm curious as a former Paulina with a child there now (I haven't noticed much change in some areas and a lot in others - the vast majority of the change I've seen has been positive eg pastoral care).

Yes, I will probably buy the book.

Kind of sad how that school has changed.

Glaciferous - I am glad to hear that you would also consider the behaviour weird! And yes, ForeverbyJudyBlume, those particular individuals will forever stick in my memory, together with the unfortunate fact they felt it relevant to tell everyone around them where they went to school (to justify the superiority of their argument). I know it's unfair, but any mention of the school since then and those girls come straight to mind. That is possibly one of the problems with having gone to a prestigious school that many people have heard of - it is expected to have a strong ethos and to have had an effect on the outlook of its students in a way not really expected (possibly unjustifiably) of schools nobody has heard of. If someone from such a school then behaves badly while invoking the name of the school, you are more likely to judge the whole school, not just the individuals concerned. Even if they were a bit drunk at the time. I will try to erase my prejudices!

However all schools are probably the same in that the normal parents outweigh the nutters by and large.

Agreed, obviously the nutters are the ones who stick in the memory ...

I remember asking the head of Bute about the parent culture and her saying "a few are mad, of course, but the majority are great." I loved that.

And yes, literally every private school has their share of weird pushy parents. However all schools are probably the same in that the normal parents outweigh the nutters by and large.

No idea who all these Paulinas are who are so keen to tell everyone where they went to school. I have literally never done so in real life, unless asked a direct question, largely because of the bonkers reactions (I do mention it on threads on here, purely to counter the v weird narrative that is generally put forward). However, if there really are actual adults going around trumpeting it, that is obv weird. Pleased to say that none of my friends from St Paul's would be so odd.

Walkaround, not sure how old you are but it seems odd to be judging a school in 2019 on the people you met at university. With a child in senior school myself, I usually recognise that many years have elapsed, and most institutions have changed significantly in that time, so my personal impression based on a handful of people I met years ago may not be all that relevant to a thread nowadays (but for what it’s worth mine was different to yours). I also never met anyone at university whom I’d label “unspectacular”

All the premier league London schools have their share of ultra-pushy parents who ask insane questions at open days (My dc have been coming back for years reporting on the lunacy), though it's true the most pleased with themselves are the ones with dd at SPGS. Having said that all schools, including SPGS, have plenty of delightful, normal parents too. The girls I know who've thrived at SPGS are nerdy, quiet types and the school seems an excellent environment for them.

My experience at university of girls from SPGS was that they did like people to know where they had gone to school and they came across as arrogant. I didn't find people from other schools going out of their way to drop into conversation what school they had attended. I was left in no doubt that having attended SPGS was supposed to be a Big Thing - even if the person telling you about it was pretty unspectacular. It left me with the impression that there must, indeed, be a surfeit of unnecessarily competitive, aggressive and snobby families sending their children there, which is a shame if, in fact, other personality types could also thrive at the school.

Of course it’s different! Do you think I dint know that? But that’s the point! Different parents, different sporting aspiration and boarding. I’m trying to say, obviously unsuccessfully, that she may well have changed to suit St Paul’s. It’s no coincidence that parents moan about this school on MN, yet flock to apply there. Don’t apply if it’s not what you want. The Head of any school is part of the ethos but not the sole driver of ambition. Would anyone not expect this school to be results driven? It’s what the whole of West London appears to talk about. I think you get what the majority want! As I said, there are so many other options I don’t know why parents don’t take them but they seem to like the competition and one-up-man-ship. That plainly wasn’t what her former school was about. Fortunately for us in the dark ages!

Call my cynical but can’t help thinking she bailed once the 9-1 new system was introduced as the director of studies kept beating on as to how the grades would drop and it wouldn’t be a failing of the school. - bit of course that’s not how Spgs haters would view it !

But Bubbles Queenswood is a totally different school it’s like comparing Apples with Pears, CF will have had a job spec to fulfill. However we are all assuming she is referring solely to Spgs parents, when in truth there are pushy parents at every school, whether it’s academics, music, sports or drama, they exist. But she cannot pass the blame entirely to parents. In the case of Spgs she was proud of the academic achievements and the subliminal messages in assembly were that the girls should maintain their high standards the subsequent year, so for a school not submitting results for league tables the girls were always made aware of the schools status and do feel a pressure to have to maintain it.

It is not a mystery where Clarissa Farr (CF), worked over 20 years ago (1996-2006) and it was Queenswood school in Hatfield. A lot has changed since then.

One of my dds left SPGS last year and my experience of CF is that she is a very nice woman but contributed to the competitive and results driven ethos of the school. It is not a bad thing in itself but let’s not pretend that the environment she describes in her book is all about the parents. The teachers at the school are as pushy as any parent, no question.

Yes. I said that unthread. That people seemed to be talking about someone different to the CF I knew. If you knew where she came from you would know what school Q is.

The sport comment was responding to a poster that mentioned that she didn’t seem to value sport. I thought differently.

At least my DDs were taught by her and knew her. In fact I knew her in those days - as a mum. However I’m sure people who have never met her or talked to her know more than me. Except you don’t appear to know where she worked previously. Or what her ethos was.

I didn’t say Rugby parents were not sorry to lose PD. I said he cycled around the sports field and didn’t speak to them! Not quite the same thing.

Bubbles your experience of CF is at least from 12 years ago our so? A lot of water under the bridge since then.... compare with the consensus of people who have met and interacted with her more recently.