Experienced teachers booted out to save money, replaced with NQTs

I can tell you what a school values less than a UPS teacher and it’s a part time one.

So true, unfortunately. I had to go back to the main scale to be able to work part-time.

I teach in an independent school but have a significant number of students funded by local authorities, I can easily have 3 TA/LSAs in a class of 12, all publicly funded.

If your school cannot provide this support, the senco needs to man up. There is a lot of money sloshing around.

If you can expect a head teacher to be in post by the age of 30, then the notion of experience diminishes.

Time was when experienced classroom teachers (10-15 years) were valued, would mentor inexperienced colleagues and would model excellent classroom practice. No longer.

And I don’t care what anyone says, experienced teachers are encouraged out and if there are interviews between those with experience and inexperienced teachers, the younger, inexperienced ones are more likely to get the job. Heads will say that they choose the best candidate, but I’m not convinced. Having been involved in interviews as a governor recently, to a limited degree, I’m not sure it’s always a question of choosing the most suitable candidate.

I suppose heads may say that they can train a younger teacher more easily in the ways of the school. Hmmmmm. Short term thinking, but inevitable given the financial climate in schools.

Also, it really just depends on the school. As I said, I got rejected from 3 jobs as there were more experienced candidates, when I went for the interview for all of these jobs, the headteachers were all passionate about having the best teachers possible, and didn't care if that meant spending more money.

Some schools, deliberately hire the cheapest option as long as they can teach. I don't agree with it, it should go to the best candidate, but unfortunately this is the mess that our schools are now in thanks to the total lack of funding in recent years

I am an NQT, I got rejected from 3 jobs that went to more experienced teachers before I got mine. And I got my current job because I worked my arse off to make sure I got it, not because I was the cheapest.

There is absolutely no money in education- none at all. Not a single penny spare. Unless you work in a school, you cannot comprehend the financial problem that is currently existing within the education system- we should be more concerned about that, before our children end up with no education at all

@CarrieBlue that is so true!

Twillow: you have just proved my point. It’s poor management.

Job shares can reduce costs because the other half of the job share might be a cheaper teacher but you get the experienced teacher to stay. This is used successfully in a number of schools I know and personal friends have done this. So “banging on” about it is worthwhile because you might learn something! No one has to be full time. Often reducing hours is what teachers want. SLT need to be flexible and retain their best teachers. Many are able to do this. Women returning to work and people over 50 ish are often keen to do this if their mortgage is paid off.

Happened to me. Didn't want to go into management so expensive classroom teacher. While pretending to support me with a personal issue that had nothing to do with work, head ripped me to pieces professionally with unrealistic demands and moving the goalposts every five minutes. Made to feel I would be dismissed if I didn't resign.

I miss the children but very little else about the job so actually I guess she did me a favour!

Raising taxes is another option but not sustainable long run

Rubbish. Having higher taxation to pay for decent education and other public services is what is done in many, many other wealthy countries. Tax in the UK is comparatively very low. Although even the US, with ridiculously low taxation levels, manages to pay its teachers at a better rate.

Experience is definitely not valued. When you’ve seen the ‘new’ initiative come in with a fanfare and quietly dropped a few times over the inexperienced rqt SLT don’t want you there to remind them that it didn’t make much difference last time and probably won’t this time either.

Means resting state education so that those who can afford to pay do pay then redistributing that money cebtrally so that all schools benefit is the best solution but the British are too entitled to accept that

What an extraordinary suggestion! Would only those with children in state schools pay? What about those with children in private schools?
I am all for wealthier people contributing more. The most effiicent system of ensuring that this happens is the income tax system.

It’s not that experience is undervalued. They simply can not afford experienced teachers. Removing pay scales would be one way to address the issue but it would begitively impact teachers. Raising taxes is another option but not sustainable long run. Means resting state education so that those who can afford to pay do pay then redistributing that money cebtrally so that all schools benefit is the best solution but the British are too entitled to accept that.

Quite simply if you are a professional, 5 years is not experienced I’m afraid. I agree it’s not right to have such inexperienced staff as head of a department and they almost certainly wouldn’t be head of anything in many other professions such as Law, Police, Medicine, Vets. Therefore teaching needs to attract people who really want the job and schools need to look at job quality and work/life balance. It seems to be secondary schools that get into this mess and they need to be much more alive to keeping the 35-55 age group engaged and in the profession. Part time and job shares are obvious answers. It barely seems like a profession in many ways so I don’t think the best people become teachers in the first place. Plenty of top grads work their socks off with extreme work hours where they either earn more or are appreciated more.

Many issues in schools that contribute to staff turnover are down to poor leadership and some of those who leave probably wouldn’t hack it doing any stressful job. There are plenty more that are equally or more stressful and where you are not on a senior pay rate before 30 with a great pension deal at the end.

Every expensive professional is stuck unless they get promotion! It really is the same for everyone. Nurses, Doctors, Planners, Architects - it’s universal and everywhere looks at staffing costs and benefits to the organisation via productivity and performance management. Teachers are no different.

In nearly any other professional job, 5 years in isn’t considered very experienced or even experienced. It’s good for teachers that promotion seems easy to attain with very little experience. Might I suggest you cannot have it both ways! In my DH’s profession (Civil and Structural Engineering) many grads take at least 5 years post degree to get fully qualified (Chartered) never mind being considered experienced. As if!

My ex teaches secondary maths, he is now at the stage where he is essentially stuck at his school as he is too expensive to move to another.

Bubbles I was on the equivalent of M5 before I was 30. £8000 difference on our pay scale at the time.

No chance that my current employer will choose me over an NQT now. I'm in a coaching role now and the pay is nowhere near what I would have been earning as a classroom teacher.

Experienced teachers booted out to save money, replaced with NQTs
It’s better than what’s happening in the Further Education sector. The pay scale has mostly been abolished. You’re either a Lecturer A (zero hour contract, term time only, only paid for classroom hours not for prep or marking, with no benefits or paid holidays). Or you’re a Lecturer B (a full time job with benefits, with responsibility for providing materials to Lecturer A as well as doing your own teaching).

Obviously they are employing the minimum number of Bs because they cost more, and experienced teachers are stuck being As hoping one day to be Bs. Bs are overworked and supporting several As, while As desperately want a proper full time job. Often the overworked Bs fail to provide materials for As who then have to cobble their classes together unpaid in what little time they can afford to allocate. Students taught by As have no access to their teacher outside the classroom because they’re only paid for classroom hours. It’s a farce and both As and Bs are leaving the sector in droves.

Sorry - in my first line I should have made it clear I meant over 30s main scale teachers - obviously not highly promoted ones.

Well over 30s are not very experienced or very expensive so I cannot see why schools want them out. Unless it’s on grounds of capability. There are so many new Assistant Head jobs now that didn’t exist before, the 30s teacher on the way up is definitely fast tracked with a good career progression structure. I guess some people don’t fit in with what schools want. Many workforces are quite young. Teaching isn’t much different.

I’m don’t think all schools are well managed and I don’t think all teachers are well looked after by their SLTs. However being forced out is constructive dismissal so is there an increase in teachers bringing these actions? If there is not, what is the actual evidence? Redundancy can be used where a job isn’t being replaced. So if you no longer teach drama, it’s reasonable that the drama teacher is redundant. Ditto other subjects that are dropped. Schools should, of course, seek to redeploy but some teachers won’t want to teach other subjects. Therefore redundancy and the associated payments to the teacher is fair, in the circumstances.

Budgets where I live have always been tight. Long before 2010! It’s been a long term issue where a Conservative Shire is starved of funds by Labour and shows how frugal it can be when a Conservative Govt has the purse strings. We now have no money from central Government at all. None.

Most of my teacher friends feel absolutely burnt out after 10 years of teaching.