GSCEs and A level grades

Level 2 Business (equivalent to GCSE) - Merit
Level 3 Business (equivalent to A level) - Distinction Star

To whoever it was saying that coursework/controlled assessments have gone, I am afraid you are incorrect.

In Music, 60% of the grade comprises controlled assessment, or coursework, namely performing and composing. All the tutoring in the world won't help you if you cannot perform in front of the teacher.

I agree with @goodbyestranger in that neither of my DDs was tutored at all. DD1 managed 12 As at GCSE, 4As and 2 As at A level. She worked bloody hard and I think deserved her success. She was also well-taught.

My DD equaled or improved her grades, so A B B GCSE results to A*A B. Her Highschool went through a really tough phase in her GCSE years, and she also found her interest and enthusiasm for her chosen subjects once at 6th form.

Quite. I only have one DC who underperformed at GCSE (rather than outperforming at A2 - he scored well under his predictions although still scored all A/A, just not many A). That was because of significant SpLD issues only picked up in sixth form so too late to save the GCSEs, where he apparently failed to finish any of the papers but thought that was normal (it was, for him!).

titchy The science practicals now have to be signed off by the teacher as having been done by the student but aren't in themselves assessed. However understanding of those practicals is tested as part of the actual exams. I haven't quite got to grip with the Geography fieldwork yet.

I think you are all mainly arguing unnecessarily. The last paper I linked to has hard data showing progression. No doubt the percentages will change with the loss of AS levels and the switch to the GCSEs, but on average better performance at GCSE leads to better performance at A level, but still you can ace GCSEs and bomb A levels, and vice versa.

I guess you have to think 'Why would my child buck the trend?' If they are lazy at GCSEs they will probably be lazy at A levels too. So the main reasons for outperforming would be something like a move to school with way better teaching staff, or illness or crisis impacted GCSE years.

For science I assume you mean the lab work? That's still part of current GCSE specs. For example edexcel Chemistry GCSE:

The content includes eight mandatory core practicals, indicated as an entire specification point in italics.
Students must carry out all eight of the mandatory core practicals listed below.
Core practical:
2.11 Investigate the composition of inks using simple distillation and paper chromatography
3.6 Investigate the change in pH on adding powdered calcium hydroxide or calcium oxide to a fixed volume of dilute hydrochloric acid
3.17 Investigate the preparation of pure, dry hydrated copper sulfate crystals starting from copper oxide including the use of a water bath
3.31 Investigate the electrolysis of copper sulfate solution with inert electrodes and copper electrodes
5.9C Carry out an accurate acid-alkali titration, using burette, pipette and a suitable indicator
Investigate the effects of changing the conditions of a reaction on the rates of chemical reactions by:
a measuringtheproductionofagas(inthereactionbetweenhydrochloricacid and marble chips)
b observingacolourchange(inthereactionbetweensodiumthiosulfateand hydrochloric acid)
9.6C Identify the ions in unknown salts, using the tests for the specified cations and anions in 9.2C, 9.3C, 9.4C, 9.5C
9.28C Investigate the temperature rise produced in a known mass of water by the combustion of the alcohols ethanol, propanol, butanol and pentanol

Likewise Geog still has fieldwork which is again what I assume you are referring to. Eg:

Geographical Investigations: Fieldwork and UK Challenges.
Candidates are required to complete two geographical investigations involving fieldwork and research, related to one physical topic and one human topic.
7A: Investigating physical environments:
● river landscapes
● coastal landscapes
7B: Investigating human landscapes:
● changing city environments
● changing rural environments

These aren't controlled assessments but practical assessments undertaken in exam conditions. Same as four years ago when my 20 year old too GCSEs.

Also, logic would suggest that there would be an even stronger correlation between the new numbered GCSEs (linear, harder) and the new linear A Levels than between the old GCSEs and the new A Levels, not a weaker one.

That last one is the one I would have posted, Teen :)

I think that things will be different in the future with the loss of AS levels. Previously students mostly took 4 AS levels then ditched their weakest subject and they had the option to resit AS modules where they had performed poorly.

Now if it turns out they’re crap at a subject, they’re more likely to just have to keep on trucking with it, resulting in potentially lower grades.

Yes you can Stickerrocks. There have been a number of changes to exam specs over the years that my DC have taken their exams (2006 to 2018 and continuing) yet the correlation has been completely consistent. You're making too much of the most recent changes, possibly because your DD was in that year group which took the new numbered exams so that's what you're familiar with. As I said above, DD4 took her GCSEs in 2018 and has taken A Level mocks and her predictions for the linear A Levels (which teachers are now more familiar with) are entirely in line with what I'd expect from the GCSEs.

Could you please tell my nephews then that they wasted their time on controlled assessments for their science, geography and history GCSEs then in 2017 as they apparently didn't exist.

Similarly I am not denying that there is a strong correlation, that is stating the obvious, but the new and old style GCSEs are very different from each other and until the first year of students to take the new style GSCEs in subjects beyond take their A levels, you simply cannot tell extrapolate historic results.

Stickerrocks plenty of students who got A* at GCSE in the days of coursework did so with no input from anywhere else and with no tutoring at all. You know, not everyone cheats. Some DC are genuinely clever. For that reason, there's a clear correlation between GCSE and A Level performance for those DC.

I may have used the wrong terminology. Controlled assessments rather than course work.
Again - incorrect. Controlled assessments went four or five years ago.

I may have used the wrong terminology. Controlled assessments rather than course work.

From 20 plus years teaching music A level and GCSE I would say a GCSE grade 9 student could expect to get anything from A*-B or C on a very bad day, a grade 8 gcse student between A-C or D on a very bad day, a gcse grade 7 student B-D or E on a very bad day. Students who get 6 or below for GCSE music would generally really struggle to get above a C/D grade at A level

the students taking their A levels this summer took GCSEs containing a large element of coursework

No they didn’t. No course work at all.

However, the students taking their A levels this summer took GCSEs containing a large element of coursework,

Eh? No they didn't.

Well it's obvious that there is a link, as you are most likely to take your strongest GCSE subjects at A level. For example, DD's college gets around 50% of students achieving grade A+ for A level maths because you can only take it with at least grade 7 GCSE.

However, the students taking their A levels this summer took GCSEs containing a large element of coursework, whereas their A levels will predominantly be tested by final exam. Those students who received a string of As and A*s because they were "supported" through their course work and tutored within an inch of their life may find a final exam based system more challenging.

If a certain (highish) score is attained in the A at GCSE then an A will be predicted for A Level at our school. It's about the specific subject not how a student scored in other subjects.

I don't think there's any rule of thumb. This for example doesn't make sense: I think the very general rule of thumb is one grade less than at GCSE

Do you understand what is meant by the phrase 'rule of thumb'? It means usually. Not each and every time. A stars at A level are very rare in the whole (that means there are some exceptions) - and usually gained by those with the very highest A stars at GCSE, not those who only just scraped an A star. Clearly, as it is impossible to get higher than an A star at GCSE.

I think this could have been it, page 18->

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/183942/DFE-RR195.pdf

www.cambridgeassessment.org.uk/Images/153531-progression-from-gcse-to-as-and-a-level-2010-.pdf

This isn't the one I was thinking about, but quite relevant. Page 17->

The paper I mentioned upthread, that I still haven't been able to find, showed the grades achieved for a subject based on incoming GCSE grades. As a bar chart, percentaged.

So e.g. (made up):
French. Incoming A -> A level U 5%, E 15%, D 15% C 25%, B 25% A, 10%, A 5%
Incoming B -> A level U 10%, E 20% D 40% C 15% B 10% A 3% A* 2%

It was very interesting. I will keep trying to find it.

I don't think there's any rule of thumb. This for example doesn't make sense:

I think the very general rule of thumb is one grade less than at GCSE

if that were the case nobody would ever get a A* at A level.

If you do the subjects you were best at at GCSE for A level you should get good grades.

A lot of people will do better at A level than they did at GCSE because they've got rid of subjects that they are not so good at, or which don't interest them or because they grow up a bit and put more effort in. I didn't do that well in my GCSEs compared with my cohort at school but I got all As at A level (I did get As at GCSE in the subjects I did for A level (2 of them, the 3rd subject I hadn't done for GCSE).

Stickerrocks I think you're overstating the case. There's a clear correlation between performance at GCSE and A Level, assuming no special circumstances.