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my son has not been offered a place in any of the schools requested

64 replies

vahidjr1360 · 16/04/2019 13:44

Dear all
My son has not been offered any of our three school choices and we are going to reject the one, which has been offered and is awful. I understand that my son's name has automatically added to the first three choices' waiting lists. I am wondering can I just call other schools that I think are good and ask if they have available places? Would they just tell us to register if they have a place? What if we could not get any school and my son continues to go to nursery for another year? Can we apply for the next year for year-1, or is the application only for the reception? Many thanks for your replies.

OP posts:
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redstapler · 20/04/2019 16:08

I just heard if you don’t accept the school you’ve been offered your child will go to ‘emergency waiting list’ which is for children who have rejected and don’t have school at all! Is that correct? Is there any emergency waiting list?

was it the Easter bunny who told you this, or the tooth fairy?!

redstapler · 20/04/2019 16:07

If you reject then you need to be prepared to go private (and have a place at a private school) or be genuinely prepared to home educate. The LEA will just heave a sigh of relief at one less child to deal with and take your child off their list. They won't bump you up the lists as your child is in no school.

Wheresmyvagina · 18/04/2019 13:34

If you reject the place you will quite likely end up with no school place at all
Rejecting the place will not force the LEA to give you a place that you want. They will not prioritise your child over others who have accepted places.

prh47bridge · 18/04/2019 13:32

No, your appeal case will, if anything, be weaker if you reject. It will feel to the appeal panel like you are trying to bully them into giving you the place you want. They won't like that. That won't automatically mean you lose your appeal but it will make it less likely that the panel will give you the benefit of any doubt.

You need a plan. As spanieleyes says, there is no such thing as an "emergency waiting list". If you reject the place the local authority is not under any obligation to come up with another offer. Your son must be in full time education from the start of term following his fifth birthday. If you reject the offer and nothing else comes along, what will you do? Your only choices would be to home educate or send him to an independent (i.e. fee paying) school. Unless those are practical options, you need a place at a state school. So make sure you hold on to the one you've got. However much you hate it, that may be your only option.

PatriciaHolm · 18/04/2019 13:30

Your appeal case is not stronger if you reject the place. In fact it can be harmed by it as appeals panels don't like the idea that someone is trying to blackmail them into accepting an appeal "because otherwise little Fred has no school to go to".

If you reject the place, the LA has no obligation to find you another. You would be reliant on a place coming up from a waiting list, finding an undersubscribed school yourself, or home schooling.

Your appeal needs to be based on showing that the detriment to your child of not attending this school is greater than the detriment to the school of taking an additional pupil. You are not appealing against a school but for a school.

vahidjr1360 · 18/04/2019 13:24

Many thanks Spanieleyes. If I have no intention of my child going to this school, why do you think I should accept? Wouldnt my appeal case be stronger, if I reject?
What do you think about appeal?

OP posts:
spanieleyes · 18/04/2019 11:54

There is no "emergency waiting list", if you don't accept the school offered, the local authority has discharged its duty towards you and doesn't have to do anything else. this is not the same as someone who hasn't been offered a school at all because everywhere is full, then the LA does have a duty to find a place somewhere.
Accept the place ( even if you have no intention of your child ever going there) and then

  1. ask where there are vacancies available. If you are Ok with any of these, apply for a place and you should be accepted. Only then reject the place initially offered.
  2. Make sure you are on the waiting list for as many schools as your LA will allow!
  3. Defer your place at the school offered for as long as possible and keep your child at home/nursery until either a place you are prepared to accept comes up.
vahidjr1360 · 18/04/2019 11:44

I am 100% sure that the school offered is not good. I have visited it before.
I just heard if you don’t accept the school you’ve been offered your child will go to ‘emergency waiting list’ which is for children who have rejected and don’t have school at all! Is that correct? Is there any emergency waiting list?
Another question: can I just reject the school offered and go to any school, which has available places (anywhere in city) and register my son, then wait for the waiting lists to be announced and hopefully receive a call?

OP posts:
AnotherNewt · 18/04/2019 07:21

"People do commonly say ‘catchment’ to mean distance, knowing that it is based in last distance rather than a fixed catchment boundary."

That's wrong and confusing though.

Happygolucky009 · 18/04/2019 07:17

We were warned off our catchment school as its reputation was poor and like you, we knew families where kids had moved as it was soo bad. We gave it the benefit of the doubt and did the preschool and liked it. When it came to making our school application, the catchment school was our 2nd choice but we preferred a smaller primary set in a village with an outstanding Ofsted.

Fast forward a few years, our village school got a new head, Ofsted inspected and they were put into requires improvement and I have been so disappointed with its lack of progression and growth, accepting responsibility for failings and not following through. Its been appalling. Meanwhile our catchment school has gone from strength to strength and excelled!

Go and look at your offered school, accept the place and if your child doesn't get on, move schools/ address etc.

Remember though your neighbours/friends experience will not be the same as yours.

InceyWinceyette · 18/04/2019 06:57

People do commonly say ‘catchment’ to mean distance, knowing that it is based in last distance rather than a fixed catchment boundary.

6 metres is very close, OP, you might be in with a good chance of a waiting list place.

meditrina · 18/04/2019 06:49

Do you mean catchment?

Or do you simply mean living close enough to fall within the greatest difference offered?

Catchment should be clearly published each year (and only changed after public consultation, though it can be easy to miss that consultation is going on).

When there are catchments, and the criteria (typically ) run 'LAC/SEN, catchment siblings, all others in catchment,non-catchment siblings, all others' it is very important to know which category you will be in when you are deciding your preferences. (Though of course being in catchment is not always enough - it settles which category you are in but if, for example, the 'other catchment children' is the tiebreak category, you can still miss out if all places are filled by those living closer)

Unfortunately, school staff (who should know better) do not always describe admissions properly, and may confusingly misuse terms.

It sounds as if there may be no catchments in your area, and that where you currently live is not close enough to qualify you for any offer (on offers day - greatest distance by admissions day - after waiting list movement - can be larger but does not have to be published).

The uncertainties of getting a place you like better at another school (now that all places have been offered) have been described by previous posters. You are lucky that you have another option (private school place lined up, or likely vacancies in an acceptable school nearby) and I hope it works out.

vahidjr1360 · 17/04/2019 23:07

The catchment areas would change every year. While we visiting the schools they said we may extend our catchment area this year and we were only 30 meters out of their area. The other one 200 meter and the last one we were in the catchment area! We didnt even get the third choice which we were in their catchment area. Moreover, we had no other options. There are only 4 schools around us. Three of them we chose and the next one is bad.

OP posts:
Whodafeck · 17/04/2019 22:01

But you knew you weren’t in catchment area for those schools. I’m confused how you ever thought you’d get a place for your son.

vahidjr1360 · 17/04/2019 21:58

Many thanks for all your useful comments. I am still thinking what to do. Probably accept the offered school for reception only and wait to see if we get one of the schools we are in their waiting lists. If not, private schools would be the only option as I need my child to interact with other children and be social. Home Ed wouldn’t be an option for me.

OP posts:
reallyanotherone · 17/04/2019 15:41

So as well as moving, she needs to understand the mobility rate in the school she is interested in

This. We have been on wait lists for 3 local schools for 4 years. Fortunately the school we were allocated, while being a pita to get to, is reasonable.

Go see it though. Lots of people warned is off our allocated school but we had no choice. Turns out it was on the way up and 2 years later was oversubscribed.

RedSkyLastNight · 17/04/2019 12:39

Even if the OP makes a genuine move it's likely that the school she moves near will be full, so she'll still be waiting for someone or some people to leave. So as well as moving, she needs to understand the mobility rate in the school she is interested in.
Go and look at the school you have been offered. You may be pleasantly surprised and as others have said it woild be unusual for their to be racism and violence in a Reception class. How long ago was the Ofsted? Schools that get bad Ofsted ratings often make great efforts to improve and can quickly become good schools. This should definitely be something you ask the head about. Try not to listen to hearsay but make your own mind up.

BertrandRussell · 17/04/2019 09:24

Every year this happens! People apply for schools they haven’t got a hope of getting into and are shocked when they get one the don’t want. Does this mean the LEA information isn’t clear enough? Is there an argument for some sort of public information campaign?

Chilledout11 · 17/04/2019 08:20

You could sell your house and have time to rent by next year.

OrdinarySnowflake · 17/04/2019 08:16

People do move house, if you do genuinely move, then you will then go on the waiting list at the place based on your new address, so even if other people have been on the list first, if you are closer, you'll go higher on the list.

Research if you can get the LEA to count a rental property if you own elsewhere - you might need to get tenants for your home to cover that.

prh47bridge · 17/04/2019 08:11

I presume that this is actually about primary schools, not secondary.

I understand that you don't want to send your son to the school you have been offered. However, if you reject the school the LA is not under any obligation to come up with another offer. If they do, it is likely to be at another unpopular school even further from home. Your son must be in full time education by the start of term following his fifth birthday so you need to have a plan.

As your son is not yet 5 you can defer entry for a full year. The LA may allow you to defer and apply for Reception next year but it is quite likely that they will insist on him going straight into Y1, missing out on Reception completely. Even if they do allow you to apply for Reception, there is no guarantee that the situation will be any different next year. You may still end up with an offer you don't want.

You can enquire about other schools with places and apply for them if you want. However, if other people are doing the same you may not get a place and the LA may insist that you come off the waiting list for your preferred schools if you want to apply to other schools.

If you move closer to one of the schools it will move you up the waiting list provided it is a genuine permanent move. If you own the property you currently live in, the LA is likely to continue using that as your address even if you rent near your preferred school. Yes, you can have many houses but the LA is entitled to decide which address to use for your application. If you own and rent most will go for the house you own.

You can look at other schools and you can hope to get a place at one of your preferred schools through the waiting list. You can also appeal for your preferred schools, although the chances of success at appeal are generally low as most cases are heard under infant class size rules.

As others have said, you should accept the school that has been offered. Rejecting it will not improve your chances of getting a school you want. It will simply leave you without a school for your son.

MrsBobDylan · 17/04/2019 00:38

Due to a change in circumstances, we moved after the date you could change your school choice.

We were not allowed to choose schools in the area we were moving to until we had completed the move and had provided four forms of proof of our new address.

Two of our 3 catchment schools are over subscribed. They wouldn't even let us look round. Our nearest school is undersubscribed and even then we are still waiting to hear if my son has a place.

You must accept the school place you have been offered. You can then go onto the continued interest lists for other schools and as it's primary, you may well get offered a place at one. But I don't think moving at this late stage will be advantageous in anyway as the LA are all over people trying to get into popular schools this way.

meditrina · 16/04/2019 22:18

'Which is your nearest school, many areas do not have fixed catchments'

Some schools do not have catchments.

But those that do have thenpm fixed (even if they,change, it can only be done after public consultation and must be clearly published by the start of the applications round, so parents know which category they are in). OP has said she is out of catchment, so is therefore behind all catchment siblings, other catchment children,and out-of-catchment siblings.

Moving - a genuine move - might be the best bet if she hates her catchment school and the one offered (not sure if that's one or two schools).

But OP it does have to be a complete and genuine move. If you own two properties within easy travelling of each other, which one of those is considered your valid address for school admissions will be determined by the LEA (not you) and it is utterly standard for it to be the original address. That is why you need to sell up from one completely - something which I guess you wouid be prepared to do, given your strength of feeling on this

HotpotLawyer · 16/04/2019 22:05

(P.S I am not a lawyer)

HotpotLawyer · 16/04/2019 22:04

vahidjr, about renting:

Scroll down this page and read the Distance Measurement section. This is typical of what many other LAs say. www.merton.gov.uk/education-and-learning/schools/admissions/primary/primary-school-admissions-criteria#commcrit

Also read these links:

www.theschoolrun.com/moving-house-for-school-places

metro.co.uk/2018/03/09/wrong-rent-home-good-schools-catchment-area-7375043/

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34014556

Kids were pulled out of a playground in Southwark a couple of years ago.