Winchester, Westminster, or Eton?

Yeah, at this point my only advice to OP is that next time you want to play pretend elitist - make sure you read up on the right ages and dates.

I don't believe a word of this OP and think it's all a wind-up.

To get accurate advice on this thread, you would do well to tell your readers how old your son will be on 1st September 2019 and what your you envisage him starting at one of these schools (eg September 2021).

All the schools listed send a lot of students to top universities in the UK and overseas for all manner of subjects. However, they have also always taken student from more modest backgrounds who had less prestigious schooling. Isaac Newton was one of them.

You will find, however, that the university admissions staff at Oxford and Cambridge have a nose for children who feel entitled to a place there and don't take too kindly to it. Consequently, on arrival a good percentage of students say to one another 'I think they must have made a mistake have they offered me a place'. Someone told me that they were convinced that someone would knock on their door and tell them there had been a terrible mistake and boot them out. After a few weeks everyone settles in, realises that their insecurities are unfounded and that everyone is there because they love their subject and love learning. The only entitled toff on my course in my year didn't make it to the summer exams.

@Ohallright - are you trying to be sensible - ha ha Very good - & very sensible IMHO No way nowadays will a 500 year old connection to a college from a school get you in if you aren't good enough. & indeed many of these boys ( and indeed pupils from all sorts of schools ) positively choose to go elsewhere than Oxbridge

Winchester still has links with New College Oxford, but It has been a very long time since all students at New College had to be Wykehamists 😆 the only links are now at governor level and that the entrance gates are extraordinarily similar. I’m sure the Eton/Cambridge set up is the same.
Guess what? Eton and Winchester are both brilliant schools, with beautiful locations. Oxford and Cambridge are great universities in scenic towns.

My son and I chose Winchester, rather than Eton, as it was the school he “fitted” best. He chose Oxford as it was renowned for the subject he wanted to study. If he had wanted to study NatSci, he would have applied to Cambridge. Both schools and Universities are great, but I would think you should look for a good fit on the school, before you think about University. Maybe at least until GCSEs are over.

Why, thank you George. I am, indeed, rather lovely and I shall make a marvellous MIL.

Having read the full thread now, I really suggest you take professional advice. We’ve used Gabbitas before and we are very happy with them.

One of our sons also started school late, for similar reasons (we don’t speak English at home and he didn’t have the right tools at 4 to start school). But when he did start, he went straight into the “right” year - partly to avoid confusion at the 13+ stage.

So if your son started two years later, he should have started straight into Y2, and if your prep advised you to start from Reception instead, I’d stop taking their advice immediately.

And, if he’s two years older than his classmates, how good a grasp does the teachers really have on his ability for his age? Of course he’ll seem “very intelligent” compared to other children in the same year, he’ll have two extra years of maturity.

You have two options: Either keep him in year and have him start secondary in Y9, knowing that it will take a lot of the schools out of the race (neither of those you mention will accept boys his age into Y9. For Westminster they have a strict 12 month age bracket for the kids starting).

Or you can tutor him intensely to catch him up on Y6 and Y7 curriculum to have him sit 13+ at the right age. Most schools will accept this, although you do need to speak to the admissions office as he’ll already have missed the pre tests. Your prep head should help you with this, but as they seem to have been useless so far, you might want to book meetings yourself and get selling...

It’s a tough situation, and it’s absolutely worth hiring an Education Specialist to help you sort it. Like, now!

Ah - I've known one or two former Oakham boys. Their mothers are lovely ...

I’m an Oakham mum and I can assure you that my son and his friends are lovely.

Is he at a London prep? It doesn't seem like they're doing what you're paying them for.

At 11, he should really have taken the pre tests this winter that just passed. On what would he apply to Westminster or Eton? (I don't know how Winchester works, but I'm guessing they'd also have pre tests).

Apply to them all if you can, and see which he gets into. Also add a few backups.

Which school will suit him will depend on much more than academics. My eldest son chose between Westminster and Dulwich College in the end and opted for Dulwich. On paper Westminster might have been fancier and with a slightly higher Oxbridge rate, but the brightest kids will get into wherever they want anyway- the percentage is completely irrelevant, and the important thing is that they are choosing a school where they will spend their teenage years.

Such a crucial part of their upbringing will be spent at secondary school, and that gut feeling is so important.

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I'm hoping from what is in the OP, that the son is at a prep school here in the UK and the head has actually recommended Winchester or Westminster to suit the boy, that these age issues have been ironed out. Otherwise the OP might be in for a bit of a nasty shock.

Oakham and Gordonstoun are a very different kettle of fish from Westminster and Winchester which are much more academic and liberal.

@michaelahpurple - I would definitely back you up on this - admissions departments are so helpful DS was a late entrant - @PGWo - phone admissions for the schools you are thinking of if your son is out of the norm. They will advise. But I still hold to get the school first & then work from that. Do not assume that school A will get you into University B . Also do not assume that by the time it comes to the choice your son will want University B. Give him his teenage years to make a choice as to what he wants to do - he is the one who will have to live with it. Right - apple pie anyone

Moving away from irrevanxies about university preferences , Yep - clearing up ages here is key. If your son is 11, turning 12 before the start of September, then he should be in year 7, not year 5. First step therefore will be to see if any school you fancy will accept that far out of age - I would not assume that they would. I do not think he would be able to sit for a scholarship anywhere. If they won’t accept him out of year, you have missed the application process for all three schools, although of course he could sit the scholarships next summer, at the right time, without a conditional place as a punt.

Agreed that Westminster doesn’t work for non-Londoners for the first year or two.

I assume your school isn’t familiar with the UK independent sector as they would otherwise have covered this.

So, first step, call the admissions departments about out of year issues.

I'm getting quite confused about your son's age and stage. If sitting the scholarship papers is a possibility I believe the schools are generally much stricter about age limits for these so please check! My son was still 12 when he sat them. Make sure you have asked the right questions in checking that you aren't too late for entry pretests, though they may make allowances on those deadlines, Eton's at least are couched in terms of the boy's age, not school year.

If your son has fallen in love with Cambridge on a visit, I think he'd probably also like Oxford - but the important thing, when it comes to that stage, is that they work out what they want to study and where they want to study it! Any of these schools should support that, I'm sure. Admittedly my son, on current form, is likely to end up applying to both (organ scholars being allowed to unlike most!). That's a way off yet.

Scholars at Winchester also wear gowns similar to the description of Eton, to my surprise it serves not only in place of a jacket but also a coat. The younger years are in dormitories - 7 to a room, which won't change by nature of the buildings. Commoners have fewer to a dorm i believe. My son's enjoying the food.

In terms of the scholarship papers, my son and a friend sitting kings scholarship were prepared together last year; the others in their small and excellent scholarship class, probably performing to a comparable standard, were at the top of the scholarship awards for their senior schools. At least double the number of boys were sitting the Eton papers compared to Winchester - I get the impression that they try to filter boys sitting Election at Winchester a bit.

There is definitely some confusion here about timelines.

If he's year 5 and looking to apply to Winchester and/or Eton, then he won't be going to those in 2 years time; they admit at Year 9, so you would need to have a plan for Years 6/7/8. Can he stay where he is for those years?

As stated above, his being out of year may be an issue - Eton explicitly state that boys need to be under 19 at the end of their last term (so end of year 13) which your son would not be.

Have you actually talked to these schools (and others) about admitting your child out of his regular academic year?

My two children went to Cambridge (local comprehensive). Neither were super bright. Oxbridge works hard to attract people from a variety of backgrounds and increase diversity with regard to applicants. The local all girls comp, near us, got 16% of the year group into Oxbridge this year.
I suspect it is easier to get into Oxbridge from state schools.
Good luck with Winchester, Eton and Westminster. I suspect they are much harder to get into than Oxbridge colleges, many of which are under huge scrutiny to widen access.
If it is any help, Prince William and Prince Harry (lovely men) both went to Eton. Neither went to Oxbridge and Prince Harry gave university a miss altogether.

Just had a quick look and Eton says it has a rule that boys must be under the age of 19 at the start of their last summer term whereas your son would presuambly be that age midway through his penultimate year?

If he is two years out of year group I would seriously consider using an educational consultant. Observation is that schools like to keep even the absolute brightest within their age groups.

We have known kids who were a year off, because of illness or something. I think Prince Harry and Abramovich's eldest (she because of her English) were a year older, but two years would be a big difference socially. You might struggle to find over-subscribed schools that might consider him.

If he isn't in the usual school year for his age I think your first step needs to be to check whether each of the schools would be willing to accept a 13+ application from a 14 year old. I don't know about these schools but I know that some of the academic girls schools definitely won't consider applications from children who are out of their academic year.

Eton's computerised test also factors in age of child when taking it so that may make it difficult.

Has your son been held back a few years? How can he be 11, nearly 12 and only in Year 5? I appreciate you've said English is the second language but it seems strange he'd be held back 2 years for this.

Are you expecting him to stay 2 years behind throughout his education or have I misunderstood something?

Oh god, peteneras is back 🤦‍♀️

The age/year makes no sense whatsoever.