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Claires Court or Pipers Corner over GS??

59 replies

Mumto2two · 27/03/2019 10:37

We are currently looking at potential secondary schools for our year 5 daughter. She is very able and have been told is highly suitable for GS, assuming she passes the test of course! The school have also suggested she should try out for scholarship to some of the independent schools, of which St. Helen's school has been recommended. However, our daughter has a long term health condition, and we feel aside from the journey being that bit too far, feel that maybe the pressure of an ultra pushy academic environment might be a little too much for her, so are questioning whether somewhere like Claires Court or Pipers corner might be a better fit. Does anyone have any experience of these schools? I hear good things in terms of the schools being nurturing and supportive, but are they likely to stretch the academically able, to the same extent as schools such as St. Helen's or Grammar? Would appreciate any feedback on either of these schools. Thank you.

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Schoolmumm · 30/08/2019 09:50

Thanks for the update ittakes2, how is your daughter finding Pipers?
We weren't very impressed with WH on our last visit. Daughter found it quite overwhelming, although Open days usually are! Some uber short skirts around, which raised a few amused eyebrows.
Head talked at length about academic success of the school, and how proud she was of each and every girl, and knows how to get the individual best out of each and every one.. which seemed amusing when we asked our tour guides what they thought of their HT. Confused shrugs all round, they didn't really know, as they never really see her around. Yr 9 girl had not actually met her yet, 6th form girl had been there 6 years. I guess it's just not feasible to know each and every one of approximately 1,400 girls! You did get the sense that this school was more about holding your own, lots of small fish in a very big sea. The minnows wouldn't really stand a chance!

Schoolmumm · 30/08/2019 09:00

Thanks LAlady, we had been watching that with interest. Have to say it is hardly surprising; it seems school development is never high up on planning agendas, but cramming hundreds of new homes under the pretext of ‘affordable housing’, usually holds sway, even though as was the case in our village, the schools are already oversubscribed. I don’t trust the process at all. It doesn’t seem as if CC are ever going to get it through. Will be interesting to see what they do next.

ittakes2 · 29/08/2019 18:00

My daughter passed both her bucks and berks 11 plus exams and got 120 for both maths and english in year 6 SATs - she did a year at Wycombe High and then we moved her to Pipers. Wycombe High is an exam factory - lots of parents/students want this as they are very focused on GCSE results. Lots of the students had tutors in year 7. We decided that with the smaller class sizes at Pipers there is no reason why our daughter can not achieve the grades she was expected to achieve at grammar school. I also know of another grammar school girl who moved to Claire's court. I think with your daughter's illness she might benefit from being in a private school who will actively catch her up if she misses classes. The grammar schools only do this through offering general workshops. My daughter could have had a tricky bunch of teachers but the atmosphere at Wycombe High by some teachers was to discourage questions. One of my daughter's teachers only allowed each girl to ask one question per class. Another told a girl off in front of the class because she dared to ask the teacher about the homework - it was made clear she was expected to ask the other girls.

LAlady · 29/08/2019 17:15

Just to follow up on this, the planning application for the new Claire's Court campus was rejected last night :

www.maidenhead-advertiser.co.uk/news/maidenhead/149266/claires-court-plans-for-cox-green-rejected-by-councillors.html

Original poster
Mumto2two · 13/06/2019 10:16

Thank you ittakes2. Although QA are introducing another shorter day, Wednesday & Friday I believe, it is still a concern for us too. We have booked her onto a taster day, so will see how that goes.
In many ways, she is perhaps more resilient than most children, because she has had a lot to cope with this far, the small stuff doesn’t phase her. So while we want to ensure her health & well being are paramount, we also want her to spread her wings and not be held back by anything that’s thrown at her. And that is certainly how she feels too.
Having said that, and in spite of HT recommending otherwise, we are not discounting CC, and it’s still very much in the mix. We’ve had a really good impression so far, and there’s a lot to like about the school. Maybe not in terms of swish facilities and thumping A grades...but there’s a caring, warm feel to the place.
We’ve also seen Borlase, which we also liked. I’m still not sure whether co-Ed is what we want for secondary, but plan to return for another look. Also want to look at Wycombe girls, we’ve had some really mixed feedback on that, so want to see it for ourselves. Thanks for all your comments.

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ittakes2 · 12/06/2019 19:05

If I was you I would move into catchment for the grammar school Borlase - but you would need to live in actual marlow - recent intake no one out of Marlow got in.
I have two friends whose daughter's love QA's - my concern about QA's would be the long hours if your daughter has an illness. Something like 12hrs from pick to drop back for my daughter's friend who loves 45mins from the school.
QAs do do taster days so worth asking about them.

Original poster
Mumto2two · 23/05/2019 10:24

Thought I would pop back with an update, having had a busy few weeks visiting schools, and a chat with the HT which has really put a cat among the pigeons in terms of where we were at.
Having been drawn by the nurturing feel at CC, and Pipers being recommended by many in terms of its improving academic perception, with scholarships being a comforting possibility to pursue at both, we were almost set to register. However HT has completely discounted either school being in any way suitable. They send many children to both schools, including their own as it happens, and while they are hugely complimentary and supportive of both, it is felt that neither school would provide the academic stretch they feel DD would need. They have acknowledged that PC has become more selective, but stressed that it is still predominantly an average to above average ability intake, and aside from academics, they did not feel our dd would fit in there. This did not come as a surprise however, as having visited the school, our daughter had sadly felt the same. She did however like CC, and felt the girls were friendly and warm, so this has really thrown our thought process. Having talked to a couple of parents with children who had passed 11+, yet still chose CC, we were feeling quite reassured, however on mentioning this to HT, he felt that even accounting for typical top set academic range, there would be differentiation required for a child with really high ability levels, so a school that could offer plenty of subject enrichment such as the QA mathematics masterclass etc. would be most beneficial. If we are considering independent alternatives to GS, with potential for scholarship where possible; then WA, The Abbey or Queen Anne's at Caversham were recommended. Having previously discounted WA on the basis of boarding, we looked at Abbey and QA. QA really impressed, and our daughter absolutely loved it. I gather the Abbey is considered more rigorous in terms of selection, but it just didn't feel right at all, and we are definitely not just interested in academics.
Unfortunately QA fees are scarily steep, and we have no idea how remote the possibility of a scholarship discount might be. If we could secure something, it might be possible at a painful stretch..but without this, we would have to walk on by...
So that's where we are at....so near, yet so far :)
If anyone has any info on QA or advice on how to approach an application that could subtly suggest this, it would be hugely appreciated!

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Zodlebud · 01/05/2019 06:44

Pipers has an “able, gifted and talented” programme but what that actually entails for academics I have no idea!! I would give them a call to find out more with the specific details.

Added benefit to you is if she’s that bright then they do offer academic scholarships.....

Original poster
Mumto2two · 01/05/2019 00:26

Thank you, that’s good to know. We have now seen both Pipers and CC, and Pipers was expectedly impressive. Lovely site, nice feel to the place, and our daughter really liked it. However she particularly liked CC, which surprised us a little! She really wants to try the taster day and says she liked how small it was and thought the girls seemed friendly. Just to add to our dilemma, it’s been suggested following her latest Ed Psych assessment, whereby mathematical & NVR scores averaged 146, that an ‘academic’ school is a must, and CC might not be suitable. Even in top sets, an element of differentiation is required, which perhaps explains a few things in her current school, but that’s a different matter.
I think we’ll book the CC taster day regardless, as it’s important that she liked it. Would also be good to know how well Pipers caters for higher ability stretch, particularly in maths. Thanks for all your comments.

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BadedasBubbles · 30/04/2019 21:45

There are plenty of bright girls at Claires Court who have passed 11+ but live in Maidenhead and didn’t make the catchment. They are in set 1 and are given support and challenging work. The school nurses are excellent and your daughter will receive more support at a smaller independent than a state school with 1000+ pupils. Logistically you definitely need to be near the school if you child has health problems. Also consider the commute and length of school day because stress and tiredness will also impact on her health.

Original poster
Mumto2two · 13/04/2019 23:08

Thank you morningtoncrescent, will definitely be back to let you know. The way things have been steering us this past few weeks, is very much towards keeping pastoral care, low pressure & close proximity as our top three priority, so hopefully we make the right choice Smile

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morningtoncrescent62 · 10/04/2019 12:02

Good luck, Mumto2two and I hope you find the right school for your daughter. Do come back and let us know if you want - I'm curious now to see what you finally decide!

Original poster
Mumto2two · 09/04/2019 23:29

Thank you all, such helpful comments. The STEM uptake at Borlase is quite impressive, thank you for the info on this. Unfortunately our daughter was ill on the day I visited the school, so we will have to return later in the year for another look. It hasn’t been a good term for her health wise, so I was very much trying to get a feel for how she would fit in as I walked around Borlase. Academic pressures aside, a very large school environment might prove a little overwhelming at times, so an air of industrious calm in a mid sized school like Borlase, was certainly more appealing than the regimental clamor of a larger school like Beaconsfield High. It was certainly the deciding factor when moving schools at 7, and I do think it will be an important factor again. As with your child Confuddled, the support she needs is more in terms of ensuring she feels comfortable and at ease, and is able to seek help discreetly, when it is needed. SEN has little input in that sense, it is the pastoral care that will be key.
Thank you all Smile

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OftenConfuddled · 06/04/2019 00:01

Oops.. I meant I’m not judging it.

Apologies for any other typos 😬

OftenConfuddled · 05/04/2019 23:58

Hi Mumto2two
I posted the link as I think it is interesting and maybe an indication of experience a school has of helping and dealing with additional needs... and maybe that in turn is indicative of pastoral care.... I don’t know if there is any correlation but it’s possible I guess. I’m. It judging it.. just wondering really.
My dc has an additional need that requires support but although it’s not a learning need it is health related and causes an a lot of anxiety so am very interested in the pastoral care provision of schools. It does fall under the SEN umbrella although that is confusing as it does, as you say, cover a very broad range of needs.
This is such a lovely supportive thread and lots of helpful advice and information.
I hope you find the right school for your dc and I wish you all the best. xx

BubblesBuddy · 05/04/2019 17:37

I totally agree that you don’t need to be taught with a whole school of extra bright children if you are bright. The Grammars are not full of uber bright DC in Bucks. You just need to find a school that meets DCs needs. We liked single sex but neither of ours had much love of science and maths so I wasn’t looking for that. That doesn’t mean the schools didn’t teach those subjects well and where DC went, girls did enjoy STEM and did very well. The advantage of a girls school is being able to be yourself and not feeling you are inferior to boys in some subjects. However many schools actively prevent that now so, again, best fit school is where your DD would be happy. Pipers, I suspect, has fewer scientists but enough. It won’t compare with SWB or WHS though.

KittyMcKitty · 05/04/2019 11:52

WRT Borlase it's roughly a 50:50 split between boys and girls. I have one of each there!

I don't know the split of male : female among subjects in the 6th form. Maths I know is the most popular subject by a long way for A level with 115 students taking it last year (77 did Biology, 63, Chemistry, 34 Physics, 49 Economics and 28 Psychology - to give some random selected context 46 did English, 8 Drama, 8 Dance, 12 French and 33 History). So I think it's fair to say the bias at A level is towards STEM subjects. I have a year 11 boy who is not doing STEM subjects for A level (pretty much all his friends are) and there is no pressure one way or the other to conform. I've looked up WHS's A level results but they don't provide a break down that I can find just the headline x% scored A*/A.

For GCSE I know many girls who are doing Computing and Tech and many boys doing Drama (boys do take dance GCSE but to be fair they are in lower numbers).

Performing Arts - there is no pressure / expectation one way or another. Music, Dance and Drama are part of the KS3 curriculum (but they are part of the national curriculum so I imagine all schools study them). Students are encouraged to take part in the arts at school (there are many opportunities) but there is no pressure. I have one child who has never done any extra curricular performing arts and one who has done loads.

Obviously I can only give you anecdotal evidence re how girls perform being taught with boys but I have not experienced any issues and my dd and her friends are enjoying and excelling in all STEM subjects. Certainly at the recent STEM fair there were possibly more girls entering CREST projects then boys. The STEM fair was on the same day as the dance show and many girls and boys were in both - it is not seen as odd or unusual to do both.

Clearly I love the school and it has served both my children well however we are fortunate with many good schools on our doorstep and I am sure that I would have been equally delighted had they attended WHS, GMS, JHGS, Pipers etc. What did your dd think about Borlase compared with WHS? My dd was adamant that she didn't want to go to WHS as she didn't feel she would fit although her best friend did go there and is doing very well.

Original poster
Mumto2two · 05/04/2019 09:58

Thank you for the link Confuddled. I guess SEN can cover quite a broad spectrum of issues. I’m not sure where our daughter would fit within that. Reading through some of the Bucks Transfer to Secondary information online, she definitely would be classed as having a ‘disability’ in EQA terms at least. There are some processing issues too, which although not diagnosed as having an SpLD as such, they have been formally assessed and identified.
Pipers feedback all seems incredibly positive this far, definitely worth considering. I had heard feedback from a parent regarding a scholarship girl who is there, that had been average set profile in the primary she left, which seemed surprising, so I’m not sure if that’s all that true!
The Queen Anne’s open day is more out of comparative curiosity. It’s quite a long trek and the long day does look like it might become quite arduous after a while. Fatigue is a regular issue, so this would be a big factor.
As for Borlase, we have been and had a look around, and were very impressed with the pupils we met. There seemed to be such an air of disciplined focus throughout the school. STEM seems popular at A level, but it would be good to know if these subjects are equally popular with the girls, and how are the two genders performing comparatively, results wise. A lot of the single sex education argument, is that girls do better when taught alone, so it would be great to hear feedback that contradicts that!
Performing arts are obviously a huge part of the school’s passion. Would this be a problem for a child who was more of a solo pianist than an uber confident drama queen?? Hopefully not...it’s a lovely school Smile

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ittakes2 · 05/04/2019 02:18

My daughter’s best friend goes to queen anne’s and loves it - long days though. They will let your daughter do a trial day to experience it. Reading abbey is another option from Maidenhead - apparently more academic pressure.

morningtoncrescent62 · 03/04/2019 18:30

My sister's three daughters went to Pipers. I don't know how relevant this is, because it was some time ago (youngest is in her early 20s) but the reason my sister chose it was because all three of hers could go there - of the three of them, one would probably have aced the entrance into grammar schools, one might have managed it with loads of stress and coaching, and one would have been very unlikely to have made it. She didn't want to separate them and have one or two feeling they were getting an inferior education to the other/s in the state system (I'm not commenting on whether she was right to feel this, but it's what she felt).

All three of them loved their time at Pipers and did very well there, and they've emerged as confident, well-adjusted individuals with lots of interests. My sister always said the pastoral side was second to none. My academically high-flying niece got brilliant exam results so I don't think there was any question of her not being challenged. But as I say, this is a few years ago now so it's possible things might have changed.

OftenConfuddled · 02/04/2019 10:46

And I should add that my DD also has a health issue which makes the pastoral side of things and the schools experience with additional needs important.

OftenConfuddled · 02/04/2019 10:37

Hello OP
Not sure if this helps but found this on the elevenplusforum and it might be useful.

It’s 2016 data relating to the number of SEN children Grammar schools :

www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2016-10-18/49291/

This is a really interesting thread and so many helpful responses. I’m not from your area but has been interesting to read as I have had a similar conundrum with a gs place vs a less academic independent school.

Good luck with your decision and I wish you and your DD all the best

Original poster
Mumto2two · 01/04/2019 23:52

Thank you Zodlebud, I like that comparison Smile Pipers definitely sounds more appealing in that sense. Our daughter is bright and talented at art & music, so naturally we want to nurture that and do all we can to help her talents grow. But even if money was no object, I’m not sure we would want her to be surrounded by such an unrelenting array of stellar brilliance. There is something more reassuringly humble about the Pipers school you describe. It does bring us back to that key question; do bright children really need to be surrounded by other equally bright children, or can they thrive just as well in a less homogeneously able environment. I am veering towards believing that they absolutely can, so it will be interesting to see how we feel about these schools once we visit them. I agree it will be a gut feeling in the end, just as it has been with previous schools we have chosen, but it would be hard to listen to the heart, if the head space hadn’t been reconciled! Great feedback, thank you all Smile

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Zodlebud · 01/04/2019 16:13

WA does absolutely prefer boarders because that’s what they offer. It’s not the school it was 10, probably even 5 years ago in terms of hot house cracking the whip culture. Plus the introduction of numerous open weekends where girls can go home has helped them feel a bit more human.

They look for a very specific sort of girl. Extremely clever girls sometimes don’t even get past the first round - there was a MN post about this a while ago - they look for team players, girls with a natural instinct for learning and with a bit of something about them.

If school was just Mon to Fri then it would be one of our top choices. However, it’s SO full on in terms of commitment to school that it turned us off. Whilst the fees would have been do-able without too many compromises, we would have been in the minority. A lot of girls there come from extremely wealthy backgrounds. That worried us a little too - not sure what social pressures there may be.

Pipers is a totally different school. Not at all comparable, but we like it for very different reasons. It feels relaxed and family like. It’s ok not to be the cleverest so long as you are making the effort. It’s ok if you’re not in the A team for netball, we’ll make sure you can be on a team. It’s ok to just do things for fun without needing to be superhuman and excel at everything. At WA they are just good at lots of stuff - those kind of girls you love to hate. I think that’s the difference. At WA you may go through periods of time not thinking you’re good enough simply because of your peers abilities, whereas at Pipers you are boosted to believe in yourself.

Original poster
Mumto2two · 01/04/2019 12:07

Money is an object unfortunately, if it was such that we felt there really was no decent alternative, we could probably continue to scrape the barrel, but this is not something we’d be overly comfortable with. A 20% scholarship discount on a 15k day school would of course be more manageable than a full 20 to 25k for places like WA. Having said that, I’ve no idea whether she would be WA material or not. What is WA material?? I know two sisters who went there, and one hadn’t passed the 11plus, whether it just wasn’t prime focus or not I don’t know. Feedback on their time there, was that it was highly pressured, and both were not always happy.
WA was raised by the Head but having said we were not interested in boarding, we were given the impression that they do prefer boarding or at least some element of this, in order to integrate better into school life, and take full advantage of all that it offers. Perhaps this is wrong..there is a lot I don’t know about any of these schools, so all this feedback is greatly appreciated.

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