Flight paths in secondary are nonsense and demotivating for pupils SAY OFSTED

*test not Year, sorry

It was only standardised tests that highlighted their potential.

And a standardised year is much better than a flight path. Because it highlights the here and now. Not what ‘might’ be in the future.

If I’m honest, I think it was probably the target grades that did the most damage to you child in the first place (and I’m sorry you did experience that). The problem is that a target grade can damage in two ways: 1. It is too low and once it is met, either a teacher, parent our pupil can just down tools and not bother or 2. it is just so unrealistic that the pupil will constantly feel that they can never ‘achieve’ or that they are good enough.

To give feedback to the pupil and parent, it is much more meaningful to say: this is what we have done, that is what was achieved. Let’s look at what the next step is.
Not: your child’s arbitrary target grade is this (that they should achieve in three years time). They are not meeting it yet. (Obviously) Your child will continue on this path and we will not deviate from it.

So teachers are actually saying that we should have no attempt at standardised assessment?

So a class has 3 different teachers in 7,8 and 9. Each teacher has different ways of assessing progress and attainment. At the end of it how do we know which students made progress, if any? Because each teacher assessed differently. So how do students know which subjects they are doing well in (rather than subjects they like or teachers they like) in order to choose options, or which subjects they aren't doing well at or are behind in?

Do you think we should wait until end of yr 11 and then realise that some students were badly let down by a school, but how could anyone know? We only had the say so of teachers of varying experience and some far more capable than others to go on.

And how exactly is effort rewarded in GCSEs? Or is it only attainment that is graded? Of course throughout school effort needs to be graded and commented on but you surely can't combine effort and attainment into 1?

And how will you weed out the teachers who aren't doing their best for their students? If they just mark according to their own judgement they might well award higher marks than another fantastic teacher, who is getting the best from every student, encouraging independent learning and giving students the solid foundations that they need. But no one will know because poor teacher will give high marks (to make themselves look good) and fantastic teacher will give lower, more realistic marks, but no one will realise because there's no benchmark and it's down to individual teachers?

And I said this:

"That could be due to having to overcome some quite serious barriers to learning. "

Note the word 'could'.

Let us, who are still in education, do what we can to try and make a difference to our pupils.

You don't need my permission. But don't expect your work to go completely unchecked.

They are struggling to learn if they cannot stay awake.

The yawning pupil, who does no homework is struggling.

No. you missed the words ‘could be’ cool

a rigid flight path or “methodology” as you put it, is actually quite damaging.

So is putting too much emphasis on individual teacher judgements. My child was completely 'written off' by more than one. It was only standardised tests that highlighted their potential. For which I am thankful for.

How are we supposed to trust people who pretty much don't think parents should be told about their child's progress.

And this just proves that you are spoiling for a fight, when this is not what this thread is about at all and has not been said once. Go take your personal vendetta elsewhere. Let us, who are still in education, do what we can to try and make a difference to our pupils. And I say that a parent as well.

You missed the words 'could be', Ms.

Admit it you just don't know why a pupil is actually yawning without having any actual evidence.

Eh? It was you who blindly stated yawning was only because they had SEND needs. I was pointing out there could be many reasons and therefore, a rigid flight path or “methodology” as you put it, is actually quite damaging. Children are not a one size fits all. They are all unique and deserve better.

I’m sure it never occurred to any of them them that this might be the case.

You'd be surprised.

You'd also probably be surprised to know that I have a BA Hons in English and Education and have taught for a number of years. Including numerous children with quite severe SENs. But having a child with a Statement of SEN was not really conducive to holding down a career. Especially factoring in illegal exclusion in the form of an extended part time timetable...

And on and on and on.

Admit it you just don't know why a pupil is actually yawning without having any actual evidence.

Good of coolcrispsnow to point out to experienced teachers that students who don’t engage (in a variety of ways) might be encountering barriers to learning. I’m sure it never occurred to any of them them that this might be the case.

I suppose that this is a side effect of England and Wales’ general mistrust of teacher judgement and obsession with ‘how is my child doing compared to others?’. It’ll have to take OFSTED’s comments to even start to make a positive difference.

And why do you think people mistrust teachers? How are we supposed to trust people who pretty much don't think parents should be told about their child's progress. Who just want actual carte blanche to actually make it up, as they see fit, using 'professional judgement' without any attempt at standardisation or transparency?

What would you think of a GP who didn't look at your medical history and also refused to report in any standardised way because they thought all the standard tests were flawed? They just offered diagnosis without referring to any testing at all...

Or, shock horror, The yawning pupil, who does no homework is up all night gaming/on social media
Or The yawning pupil, who does no homework is lazy
Or The yawning pupil, who does no homework has given up because their target grade is demoralising/unachievable.
Or The yawning pupil, who does no homework has been up all night because they have a new baby brother/sister.
And on and on and on.

If there is no methodology stated, apart from 'professional judgment', there exists nothing to compare

Works quite well in Finland, using professional judgement. I suppose that this is a side effect of England and Wales’ general mistrust of teacher judgement and obsession with ‘how is my child doing compared to others?’. It’ll have to take OFSTED’s comments to even start to make a positive difference.

Teachers make stuff up. That’s the methodology

Evidently. And demand respect for it....

We are talking about students who yawn, put their head on the desk, do no homework, write nothing in lessons

That could be due to having to overcome some quite serious barriers to learning. The yawning pupil, who does no homework is struggling. Have you never found a subject so difficult and unintelligible you can't even begin to access the sense of what is been said never mind find it interesting?

I once had a lecturer who spoke in complete riddles. I struggled to stay awake. It wasn't the subject it was the way he spoke. Had me flabbergasted. I ended up spending a lot of the time reading up on it. Huge effort to achieve in that subject..,

Why do you think that different teachers or different schools are using the same methodology for flight paths?

If you have a methodology you can compare it. If there is no methodology stated, apart from 'professional judgment', there exists nothing to compare. You can't exactly ask each teacher for a CV detailing their experience...

There will be a lot of judgement in any reporting that is not based on standardised testing. I'm not advocating for the use of arbitrary performance scales any more than I am the use of flight paths. Reporting attainment up to year 10 is hugely problematic, and the issue is with reporting a single attainment value, not the data I collect.

If your child was working really realy hard and their results in classwork and homework was excleent and/or improving : and then you received a gradesheet thats aid they would eitehr make NO progress or GO BACKWARDS, are you really saying you would be OK with that?

No. But this information would make me ask questions. Which would result in more clear information regarding how my child is doing.

If I did not receive this information I would be none the wiser.