Wilson's vs Tiffin

Same dilemma here 5 yrs ago, went with Tiffin as it was much closer, never regretted our decision as school suits him so well + my DS is forever running late even though lives only 15 mins away from school. Wilson's would have been a nightmare in this respect.

Funnily enough, we were having a conversation on Tiffin vs Wilson's only yesterday. I was under the impression that for all the Tiffin Boys hype, Wilson's has been scoring higher in league tables (and continues to go from strength to strength) for quite some years.

But it's probably splitting hairs, as both are highly in demand and attract very bright pupils.

DS attended a super-selective with a high Asian intake. If you look at university destinations and subjects to be read, year on year, none of the Asian boys ever do humanities subjects. Law would be about as far as they'd venture away from STEM subjects.

re 'Asian 4' - I don't know about a common expression as such but I've heard it used quite a lot amongst parents at the more selective grammar schools, usually in the context of the little talk that a school will have with pupils before their final choice of A level subjects, it kind of going without saying that parents will have influenced if not outright made the choices.

e.g. member of staff: "you know this is your choice, right, and, knowing your strengths as I do, I think you'll be happier and probably get better grades if you go down a languages/humanities/arts etc path".

child: "my mind's made up, I'll stick with the 'Asian 4', please".

banging out straight A Stars in 'the Asian 4' subjects

I haven't heard that phrase before, but assume you mean STEM subjects. Quite possibly, but the admissions criteria for sixth form looks at GCSE grades across 8 subjects. I think the Tiffin head has been swimming against a tide of parents who are only interested in sciences, which may be at least partly why they started to admit girls in sixth form.

It's worth mentioning that Tiffin has only recently started offering Computer Science GCSE, and currently only offers it to boys who do combined (double) science, not separate (triple) sciences. A lot of families aren't happy about that. I think it's partly about managing demand for what would otherwise be a heavily oversubscribed subject, as well as making sure arts subjects are not undersubscribed, and the boys have a 'broad and balanced' curriculum.

anyway, fwiw of all the Sutton grammars Wilson's puts the least weight on VR/NVR and most of maths and English. I can't say I envy the job of whoever ends up marking all those papers (and also question whether this is a good use of taxpayers' money, but that's another question altogether).

do you think VR/NVR is more tutorable than maths/English?

They're more tutorable to those without good maths and English skills, therefore not a good prefictor of future success at GCSE and A Level (which rely on those skills).

Of course maths and English can be tutored too, and that is a much better use of parents' money.

the latter played strongly into the hands of ...

Possibly, yes. I didn't say it was more socially inclusive - just less tutorable - I probably should have phrased it as less dependent on tutors, for those who already have good maths and English.

However, the kids I know who got places without tutors were all at state primaries and secondaries and had natural ability which kept them perpetually "top of the class" at most academic subjects - there were certainly other kids at those schools who were turored in maths and English, but that was to help them keep up with other kids at their current school, not to get them into selective schools.

I know nothing about Wilsons, but be wary of comparing pre-pandemic results. Tiffin changed its entrance tests a few years ago (now maths and English rather than purely V/NV reasoning). The first cohort to have done the new tests did their GCSE's in 2021 so there are no published results, but the Head says in the Good Schools Guide report that they're the "strongest cohort yet": www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/schools/100553/tiffin-school/78B6E39#tab_review

That doesn't surprise me at all because the old tests were pure tutor fodder and didn't select the brightest. Three very bright boys I know have got places since the tests changed and have done so without tutoring. I know two similarly bright but untutored boys who didn't get into y7 under the previous regime, but later did get into the sixth form and were in the top 20% of the year group for their A level results.

there's no difference at all. comps are different to grammars which only take local kids, which are in turn different to the ones who take kids from all over. but within a 'tier' of grammar it's futile to try and differentiate.

If you look at league tables, Wilson’s does a little better (not significantly though). However they are quite far apart distance wise so if you live close to Tiffin and have a choice, I would go for Tiffin every time.

Would you consider Wilson and Tiffins at the same level academically and In extra curricular activities? We have to submit the CAF and are very confused about the which one to select as our first option. Distance wise Tiffins is closer to us. Unfortunately we haven’t had the opportunity to visit the schools in person as there weren’t any tours available due to Covid restrictions. Any inputs would be appreciated. Thank you.

Assuming the OP listed one of these schools first in their CAF, then I assume that is the correct offer. Again, what school did you list first - are you know considering a school you listed as a lower preference?

There have been a few errors with people being offered 2 schools this year (look at the eleven plus exams forum). You need to find out which is the genuine offer, OP, because something has gone wrong.

Which one is easier to travel to?
Which does your DS prefer?
Which has the extra-curricular that he most wants to get involved in?

The travel is massively important. Once they are older they stay late at school, sometimes four nights a week, or go in early or go in on Saturdays. A quick reliable journey makes a huge difference to the quality of life they have.

Well done to your DS. They are both good schools.

The LA has given you two offers??? What have they said about your receiving two offers during the "constant communication"? Did they say that they abandoned the nationwide system of school allocation
because your son was just so special? I don't think this is true and you're wasting our time with your fake dilemma.

She said they were offered a place in both schools.

I have a bit of an imagination but I think both schools want this child and they probably didnt even fill in one of those forms and may even be living in another country. (In a palace).

Good luck with your choice. I don't know anything about either school but where do you picture your son would fit in best? Can you imagine him in either one, laughing and happy. Then that's the one.

I know you don't want to listen, but it really truly should be impossible to have two offers from state schools. If you really have two offer emails it is because THERE HAS BEEN A MISTAKE somewhere.

You really need to speak to admissions at your LA and the admissions at the school, which wasn't offered to you by your LA and find out what has happened. Maybe you were meant to receive the waiting list letter and got sent an offer one by mistake. No child is so clever and wonderful that they will be the only child with two state school offers.

You are in danger of refusing a place at a top school for a place THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN OFFERED TO YOU. Do you really want to be back on here in two weeks whining because your son has missed a great opportunity?

I would suggest that you contact the LA you applied via to clarify the situation as you should normally only get an offer for one state school, not two.

I think this might be an exceptional case.
Good luck with moving house.

What did you put as your first choice on your CAF form?

I too am surprised you have two offers as all applications are handled by the LA who will only give you the offer you ranked highest - what did you therefore put first?

Yes, you are right, Worms - my logic went missing for a moment
And they do even better under your correct version.

They're not trying to poach the highest on the list they couldn't fit in. They are trying to poach those with high scores, who got into a higher preference school. They are hoping that some may have changed their minds since doing the form back in October.