Made a stupid mistake

I think the LEA are talking to the schools - a lot of schools have reduced the PAN over the last few years, which was very short sighted.

It is a huge number that need to be placed and given that there won't be any quick answers. They are apparently doing what they can, but who knows what will happen.

Lougle. Yes we did.

The parents in Middlesbrough should go back to the LA and remind them they have an obligation to find their children places (possibly via bulge classes).
But practically I would look at schools in neighbouring areas and apply for any I liked and/or was especially convenient to get my child to eg. Close to grandparents.

My dd is now in Y7.

Originally we put down three schools. All are popular and oversubscribed.
We were offered a poorly rated school which was two bus rides away. This school's gcse pass rate was 27% A-C. It had concerns from Ofsted about attendance and bullying.
We went on the waiting list for the three schools we liked. We told the offered school to Foxtrot Oscar. We decided it would be far better to home school, and wait for a place, than send dd to that shitpit.
I also put dd down for two other schools that we weren't strongly convinced by, but had good reports and we thought, why not?
We got into one girl's school on the waiting list quite quickly but dd wasn't fussed about it. We got an offer from another girls school and accepted a place. It was out of borough, but a few primary school friends went there and the reputation was good. Also, I was impressed by the Head, who wanted only the best for her students. Attendance was high, low bullying rate, pastoral care was good, and the GCSE rate was 76% A-C. She's been quite happy there.
Soon after she started there we got an offer from one of the three original schools that we had applied for. But dd decided to stay at her girls school that we hadn't even given too much thought to in the first place.

(This is in South London)

You didn't make a mistake - if you hadn't put this school down you could well have been offered a worse school which is also too far away.

Whatever you do accept the school offered at least for now. And then reassess your other choices. Go on waiting lists, including any "too far away but still better choices in retrospect" schools. Consider appealing.
And teachers often don't understand admissions much better than other parents - I have heard awful advice from deputy heads before now.

Why is it that despite all the advice given, by people who have been there and know what they're talking about, that some people still insist on declining a school place?

I truly understand that you don't want your child to go there, but if you decline, the LA has discharged their statutory duty to provide your child with a place. That's it, they don't have to help you any further!

In regards to Middlesbrough they have literally not been offered a place and have been told to ring neighbouring authorities, those I know in that position were too shell shocked to do anything particularly worthwhile on Friday.

I am not sure why, it is 87 who applied with no place and another 20 who did not submit an application. There are no private schools in the town, so not likely to be much movement of places.

One of the reasons given is that children from outside the area have places, distance wise they can be closer than others in the town. Probably the main reason is all the new houses being built and no infrastructure going in.

There are also some who have a school place but are deeply unhappy.

If it's more than 3 miles, the LA have to provide free transport. If you decline the place, the LA don't have to offer you anything else, even if you later change your mind and the place at the school you were offered is then full (they would if they had one, but if they didn't have any places anywhere, they wouldn't be obliged to try and find one), so be very sure that you want to decline.

Prejudice grounds just means that your DD needs to attend the school you want more than the school would suffer a hardship by having to squeeze her in, essentially.

Are you in a position to homeschool?
Do you know that if you decline the offered place the LEA have no obligation to find you anther school?

@Ratatouille76 you accept the place, then go on the waiting list for any other schools you want to apply for. Meanwhile, you can appeal for a place at a school on prejudice grounds if no mistakes have been made.

Yes indeed, @RafaIsTheKingOfClay, that is very much one of the problems with the system. School populations have always fluctuated with the birth rate but in previous decades LAs have had more power to accommodate those changes. Not always done it well, obviously, but at least the option was there!

So potentially the move to convert as many schools as possible to academies is going to be an issue. Once you’ve ruled out the academies/VA schools, and those without space to expand then the options for finding an extra 100 places a year for a few years might be a bit limited.

Happy to stand corrected, @prh47bridge!

Can they still permanently increase the size of a school prh

For some types of school, yes. And no, the school doesn't have to be rated outstanding. The LA can increase the admission number of any community or VC school after consulting with the governors. They can pressure other schools to increase their admission number but cannot force them to do so.

My understanding is that they can but only if that school is rated outstanding. This has happened in my area where the council's only option was to expand a nearby primary school to accommodate the increase in birth rate... which has since evaporated and the expanded school has reduced its PAN by half the expansion no. as it wasn't filling. I live in an area with very few academies or free schools.

Can they still permanently increase the size of a school prh?

it would be a darn sight easier for councils to fulfil their obligations to provide school places if they were allowed to set up schools themselves

That isn't entirely true. There is a presumption in favour of free schools so an LA wanting to set up a new school must first seek free school proposals. But there are circumstances under which they can still set up a new community school.

What is the councils duty to the pupil if there are no school places?

They have to find them a school place. If neighbouring authorities are under capacity then some children will be offered places there. They’ll also look and see which schools have the physical space to admit either a few more children over the PAN or to take an extra ‘bulge class’.

Just wanted to say I’ve done almost the same thing, except I put my 3rd choice which I wasn’t keen on to avoid getting one I really disliked, and I also got my 3rd choice. No real grounds for appeal so having to go on wait lists, also feel gutted. DS being brave but I’m so annoyed that all his friends for their 1st choice!!!

From what I heard, the affected children in Middlesbrough haven’t been offered places yet - they’ve been advised to apply for school places outside Middlesbrough, in neighbouring LAs.

Hopefully the secondary schools in the neighbouring LAs will be able to take them all.

And I totally agree that councils should be able to set up schools themselves. They clearly need more school places in Middlesbrough .
The secondary school I went to didn’t have much more than 100 pupils in each year group.

Re the article about Middlesbrough: it's not that 100 children there didn't get an offer, they have been offered schools outside M'borough (eg in Redcar) because the local schools are oversubscribed. It's still very hard on them but they do have places.

Also time perhaps for my regular complaint that it would be a darn sight easier for councils to fulfil their obligations to provide school places if they were allowed to set up schools themselves .

Technically that's correct, yes, but the reality is that it's very, very difficult to win an appeal on this basis

Last year 23.4% of secondary school appeals were successful, the vast majority of them being on this basis (i.e. balance of prejudice). So I wouldn't class it as "very, very difficult".