Do private schools always over offer?

It is a high birth year (I remember that from initial primary places) so all London indies have had unprecedented applications. The 3 schools DD sat for were rammed and some had second sessions days later. I'm guessing the odds at two of them were 800 girls for 80 places. We were very fortunate that DD was offered all 3 so had a choice. That said I'm agog at asking children to sit for 8 schools! That feels like a brutal schedule and I know would have been too much for my DD. We had a favourite, a second very good choice and a banker.

The offers only came out yesterday so it's all about raw still, but these feelings will pass pretty quickly. Try not to engage in endless talk about it all and certainly not in comparisons to others. Focus onnthebpositives as others have said, and let the space of half term put a gap between offers Friday and the next week at school, by which time everyone will have moved on.

She's a bit shocked and you obviously are too. You're allowed to feel like that, although as parent you do have to be very careful about what you say about the system itself and other schools to her. You too will find that in a few days you've moved on too, to making your choice and looking forward to that next phase in whatever school. It might sound glib now, but it's true that after a couple of years, most people look back and say they can't remember quite what all the fuss and stress was about and their child is at a school which is working out well for them. This phase of crying and being really upset truly will be short-lived.

It is a high birth year - and there are more people in London who wish to pay for private secondary school than places

@Mumstheword82 is it the system that is vicious or the behaviour of parents? I can't imagine making my children sit exams for 8 schools. Mine did 2. The one we wanted and a reserve. We didn't bother applying for 5 other possible options. I understand that in some areas things are more competitive and there is more choice, but even so.

Perhaps there is a need for a UCAS type organisation that restricts everyone to 4 or 5 applications at most, and then operates a clearing system.

By the way, my children were at a normal state primary and had no tutoring.

Schoolsout, you are completely right and I have been doing all you suggested. I told her it is great that she has offers as the numbers are so high etc. The trouble is despite all my efforts throughout the process to a) not talk much about 11+ and b) when it was talked about I constantly said they are all great schools etc, she still set her heart on two schools. Most kids from her current school will get spots at one of those two schools at least (some will refuse them) so she feels like she didn't do well. It doesn't help that at the school that refused her outright, her interviewer told her she was just what they were looking for. Obviously the interview didn't hold much weight. I'm feeling deflated and am cynical about the system but know deep down there are a lot worse things that could happen than not get into a school.

Mumstheword82 - you have two places and two waiting list places. You need to stay positive for your dd’s sake and emphasise the numbers sitting and how well she has actually done sitting 8 exams and getting offers at 2 maybe 4 of these. Some children get no offers at all! If she didn’t get into a school it obviously wasn’t the right place for her. I’m sure she’ll be fine despite not getting into one of your top choices.

Yes they are. It is shocking. DD is devastated and trust me I didn't fill her with any ideas about schools but they figure it out from all the 'talk'. Crying her eyes out saying she must have really messed up, is such a failure etc. She's a fairly bright child, goes to an Indie, even had some tutoring and we were not even going for the very 'ambitious' schools.

During the last few months, I meant!

Mumstheword82 - Are these N London/central London schools? If so, I have friends who have gone through the whole process during the next few months. They tell me that they were shocked at the huge numbers sitting for such few places at some schools. Often 600-800 sitting for 60-70 places. Maybe it’s a high birth rate year? Brutal though, I agree.

Applied to 8 schools and thought was being OTT but only got two offers, both which were 'safety nets'. On w/l for 2 other schools (one I thought was also a safety net!) and straight out refusal from 4 schools. One refusal is a total shocker. Gutted. Should be grateful for offers but even DD said 'everyone gets into those schools' even though I have been so positive and non bias about schools. Done my best to stay calm and upbeat throughout the whole process but the system is vicious.

Generally yes and each year lots of parents will end up losing a deposit as they have to accept a place at 2nd/3rd choice school to avoid losing it and then later get offered somewhere higher up their preference list.

I’d love to know how schools calculate how many offers to make.

Yes I believe they do over offer but to varying extents as to how sought after they are. The 3 schools my dd have applied to have all put on extra classes in recent years therefore taking extra numbers than previous years. Is this down to overoffering or being a business trying to squeeze in extra children to obtain their extra fees? Two of the 3 schools have said they have to be very careful this year as they do not have room for an extra class this year. But then we have received offers from all 3 schools despite coming from a state school and hearing the high numbers applying this year. I think the London schools know that some children are doing up to 8 different school exams and they can’t accept offers from multiple schools. If the schools put people on a waiting list they are at risk of losing that child so the less popular schools maybe wouldn’t risk that.

It's certainly true that a number of mid range schools basically offer to almost all applicants and so really aren't academically selective. They might have less of a range than some Comprehensives, but parents don't know that or don't like the idea, but do like the idea that their child passed the exam - it is in these schools interests to make it seem more selective than it is and to quote the fact that 500 sat for 100 places, without saying that they made 480 offers and then only filled 75 places anyway - it is the reality more than people realise. Look out for schools which mention being willing to consider late applicants or supplementary sittings - all trying to fill a few extra places before September.....and even some of the very good schools can find themesleves doing this when either their calculation about how many would accept isn't quite right or people later drop out for whatever reason. Not all schools operate waiting lists (often becaue those below the cut off for acceptance are not the academic level they want in their school) and those that do, find that after a couple of weeks after acceptance deadlines, waiting lists prove a bit useless as people have accepted somewhere and have emotionally committed to that choice and to fill the place requires going far down the waiting list to those the school perhaps doesn't really want anyway - so they'd rather consider a late applicant or run a supplementary exam in hope of better candidates.

Schools definitely don't want those figures leaking out about how many offers they make and how many accept as pretty much all make more offers than most people could imagine. The sense of being elite is lost when the figures are known, especially if a school has to offer to 500 to fill 80 places.

They do all over offer to some extent but they have usually built that in so don't always go to the waiting list. We're on the WL for a school for which we'd been pretty confident of an offer. When I phoned them they were very nice and said they'd tell me soon where we were (which in fairness they have already done and with an exact number of our position) - but that they had not gone to the waiting list since 2016. That didn't leave me feeling great about the process!!

I would agree.....I also think that the schools are competing with each other for the "best kids" so they want to make getting into their school seem as difficult as possible (to try and make you covet a place more)....one very aspirational head told parents that they only "over offered" 10% which in this particular instance equated to 4 additional offers. Having been through the process with another DC a few years back I knew this to be complete rubbish as that many children at my prep school alone turned down places at this particular school.....

PPS I know of one family that sat for 10 schools this year and one family that sat for 12 last year (and that child got offers for all but 1).
Stay strong & good luck

PS our head teacher sent out an email today telling everyone to release unwanted offers ASAP as there are other chidren waiting - good for her!

Same in SE London. DS is in a small indie primary. Compared to others in his class, he barely sat for any indies as he sat for (only!) five. One aspirational, two realistic, two back ups. He has offers from each of his back ups, and the others will offer or not offer at the end of this week. Do yes, those that we have applied for do over-offer.

If you're talking SW London yes they all do! Most parents at our indie primary applied to 5 or 6 schools (2 aspirational, 2 achievable and 1 or 2 in our case, back-ups). We've had 4 offers, a WL and are waiting on one of the aspirational on Friday but are about to accept one of the achievables so I've released 4 places this week, one of which is aspirational but we felt was the wrong fit. We've chosen a school that many round here would consider to be a back up, especially compared to others on our list .
All of that info to show you that there will be a flurry of unfilled, first offer places that will be released imminently (hopefully if everyone does the right thing and does not sit on their offers). Awful, stressful process but those that have gone before us have all reported back that the system does 'work' once the process is seen through to the end and that nearly all the children end up in school that in hindsight, is right for them ie no massive surprises

Honestly I can but dream of those odds - the ones we've applied for have 10 applicants per place (I know the reality is nothing like that but it still feels intimidating).

Most schools, even sought-after ones, offer 3x the number of places, certainly in London where there's so much choice that everyone applies for at the very least two.

I imagine that schools with far less applicants are using an entrance procedure for two reasons - one to make it feel as if children have 'gained' a place; secondly as excuse not to accept the very hard to teach.

ps am conscious that the above makes me sound a bit snooty about less selective schools. I'm not. I often think the very selective schools are the biggest con - it's easy to teach those who've already proved themselves to be academic and hardworking.

Worried, my children go to a school that is considered by many locally to be a backup/easier to get into and the last couple of years they've had about three times the applicants to places available. So that makes it not a certainty, but equally much better odds than some of the schools I read about on here.

One factor might be whether the school prioritises siblings (my children's school does, informally) so a child with a lower entrance exam score might get a place over a higher scoring candidate (all kinds of factors will effect decision of course).

@ladygaga01 some schools have an interview stage after the exams - no interview = no offer

Schools near us make offers in rounds. Round one offers to the number of places with a deadline to accept and then they start offering places that haven’t been secured.

worriedandstressedAAA - how do you know that "hardly any kids at DS primary got offers" if the school are still to send offers out?

I would wait until Friday and see where you stand. I am sure one (or both) offers will materialize.