Do private schools always over offer?

I think you'll find that most of the SW London day schools do.

It's less common with boarding schools - INSWE.

Wombatchocolate : am really touched by your words of wisdom . Thank you . You just made my day . X

I think in the current climate patents would just find others to target.

You'd think the consortium would be able to put a UCAS system in place if they want to cut back on some of the madness.

To be honest, I don't think the school so need it much for the madness either. Yes they get lots of application fees, but they have to run loads and loads of open mornings, run huge exam days and mark the bloody things and know that a large percentage of those they are courting and sucking up to don't havevthebschoolmas first choice, plus then have the difficulty of knowing how many places to offer to fill - too few and there are empty seats and a need to go to wait list, which after the acceptance deadline is like the Wild West for schools themselves - you'd be amazed how far down even prestigious schools sometimes have to go to get a 'yes' after acceptance deadlines when people have emotionally and financially committed to somewhere else....and forbthebless prestigious they can go to the end of their wait list and still not fill (so it might feel there are no places for some kids, but actually some schools aren't full) but if they over offer, there can be all kinds of logistical nightmares, especially in London schools with no scope to expand on tight sites - it's why City went to exploding offers.

So actually I think the schools would rather it were all simpler and they could go back to when people applied to 2 schools. But they have to respond to the current climate and that involves running multiple open days, emphasising how popular they are and fuelling the hysteria. That hysteria has been fed by schools but also by parents and their anxiety and applications to so many schools. It does seem a bit out of control and doesn't really benefit anyone. But it will work out and all the kids will have school places and the vast majority of these independent schools will offer a great education.

I doubt they are that organised!

@fifthtimelucky - you would think so but from what I can see amongst children I know it is inconsistent - some have been offered all the consortium schools they sat for, others have random offers for some not others with it not seeming to matter how bright they are or how well they did in the exam. Maybe you have a point though in that they are speaking to each other and dividing up the more borderline kids amongst the schools so that they fill all their places.

@Taminini I don't know how the consortium works, but the situation you describe sounds to me like an example of sensible offering by the schools.

Wouldn't the 'lower ranked ' school in this case know that they wouldn't be picked by a child who received an offer at a 'higher ranked' school, so they might as well offer that place to someone without an offer from a 'higher ranked' who was more likely to take it?

Thanks Taminini. It will be interesting to see if there is a backlash to the new consortium system. I was happy when they announced it. The idea was to give power back to the primary schools and give more weight to references / interview. If that were true then DD would have got in. Sadly in practice due to the number of applications the schools most likely don't have the resources to properly examine references etc. It's most likely a 'first past the post in the exam' system.

Really do feel for you mumstheword, the whole process seems so unfair. From what I’ve heard from mums of girls who sat the consortium it also makes no sense at all. It’s all the same exam yet I know of a girl who has an offer at one very highly ranked consortium school who got rejected by a much lower ranked consortium school - so seems like some very inconsistent stuff is going on this year.

Thanks Fifttimelucky, if you're not familiar with the London school scene, I can’t really blame you for thinking that anyone who applies to 8 schools must be crackers. If you’d asked me a few years ago I would never have imagined I would be in this situation but such is the central London school scenario.

I’m not so sure the perceived average schools are actually taking average kids anymore. Some such as Emanuel have increased enormously in popularity. FWIW, my DD’s data is above average, her behavior is impeccable (excellent school reports etc) and yet she didn’t get a place in schools that should have been a no brainer. Something went very wrong in the whole process. I’m still reeling. But mostly I’m sad because she is so upset. If she was excited about the offer she got and even if it wasn’t MY ideal school for her, it would still be completely fine. She is going to go back to school and hear about some girls who’s behavior is questionable who will have been offered a place (possibly only because they got 1% more in the exam). There are also kids who will be offered a place and will leave 6 months later or who plan to go boarding in two years. We were in it for the long haul and happy to contribute to the school in any way we can. There’s no lesson in this to be learned for DD, if only that there are no prizes for being a good girl and that you can’t believe what people say (not even teachers). :(

A couple of things to give everyone hope. Although places seem limited everyone will find a place for sept and we’ll before then most people are really happy with the school their child is going to and like it once they start. If you can pay there will be a place.

Some children will go to schools which are less selective and have a wider ability range. Remember a great state comprehensive with the full ability range can do well by all pupils, getting some to Oxbridge, lots to Russell group unis and almost all to the appeopeaiate next stage. Lots of less selective independents do the same or better - their resources and supportive parents bring success. Success is there for all these children - they really aren’t doomed by a lack of an offer from a highly selective school.

Apologies. I have re-read my post and can see that I sounded smug. That had not been my intention, obviously. We are not in London, and my girls are now 19 and 21 so no doubt not a comparable situation.

It does sound to me, as someone has suggested, that there are not enough places available for average children, or average to bright. The brightest will be fine and will end up with multiple offers. I wonder how many places there are altogether, and how that compares with the number of children who want them, especially once some of them have accepted grammar school places. I'm in Surrey and I suspect we have a better balance between very selective, fairly selective and not at all selective (other than by ability to afford the fees).

I understand why parents apply to so many schools, but if all of them stopped at 4 or 5, and if all of those holding multiple offers gave them up promptly, I suspect there would be much less heartache all round. I completely understand why they don't, of course, if they're also waiting to hear about wait lists at other schools or about grammar places. A UCAS type clearing system could help with that, I think.

At this time of year, there always seem to be lots of people agonising about where their child will end up. I don't remember any threads about children who end with no place in September.

It seems to me that the only beneficiaries of the current system are the schools, who end up with huge numbers of application fees from children who will never get in, with lost deposits from children who never attend because they eventually get a place at a school they prefer, and with the kudos of being able to say that their. school is 10 times over subscribed.

I do wonder how much profit the schools make from the current system.

Hi everyone, Taminini the nightmare of a waitlist is you may well end up losing a deposit. Unfortunately you cannot assume a waitlist place will materialise. I have definitely been burned by this after weeks of encouraging feedback about chances only for waitlist to close. Unfortunately the registrar can’t predict with any more accuracy than what happened last year and some years move and some don’t. I would be tempted to take the scholarship. Or calculate what you will save with it compared to paying two deposits?
Everyone else I remember that waiting list pain and wish you all the best. Here is hoping that those that have an offer in hand and know for sure what they will take are considerate and quickly let the schools know.

Agree about lack of boys options- certainly in SW London, fewer “in the middle” options, a Surbiton would be very welcome! Otherwise it’s seems limited to Ibstock and Emmanuel.
In response to original poster I think schools offer offer enormously- but- that doesn’t mean they always go to waitlist. Unfortunately.

@Mumstheword82 Also, regarding the interviewer's comments, that does happen. I have said too many outing things to give a local example to me but it's hard to know what they could be thinking getting a child's hopes up that way. It doesn't help trying to manage a child's expectations. If you are at a prep this is something you could feed back through him/her.

Sometimes it feels like schools will expect parents to put up with any old shite they throw out - exploding offers, poor communication- doesn't it?

The system can be very arbitrary. As I said on another thread, with DD1 the outcome could have gone a different way. There is no way to be sure your strategy of getting through the process 'worked' or if actually you got (very) lucky. In theory it should help being in a private prep- at least they will not obstruct on ideological grounds by doing things like refusing references which I have also seen people posting about -but they sometimes have an imperfect picture of a child's abilities and the competition at the schools. My children's school has substantially improved analysis of data around this since DD1 went through the exams. They couldn't, however, do anything about the 900 kids as opposed to 650-750 in prior years, now taking the feeder school paper.

Just for your own info - and @MaidaVala2000 - what routes do you have at 13+?

Of the two schools they are both lovely and I know it’s not all about results but the one we have gets around 60percent 7 8 and 9 grades, and the wait list one is in the high 90s. It’s a big difference.

Maidavale, mumstheword and all of you on waiting lists or without places I am so sorry to hear. I guess we are lucky as DS is really happy to have been offered a scholarship to one of the schools. It was the backup but he isn’t aware of that. But my issue is that the one we really wanted he is on the wait list. I’ve spoken to them and he’s quite high on the wait list, but they think it’s unlikely they’ll have any places come up until after the state schools offer in March - but because the other place is a scholarship offer we have to let them know straight after half term or lose the scholarship - could still have a place but without the scholarship. Just don’t know what to do as don’t want to lose the scholarship but definitely don’t want to pay two deposits. What should we do?

I'm in the US but in the northeast where there are a lot of private high schools. They definitely over-offer. 2 years ago my dd2's school ended up with the biggest freshman class ever because their usual formula failed them - they had an enormous yield (accepted offers). They just sucked it up. DD said it was like the school had been overrun by 9th graders - they were everywhere!

I don't know if it is the same in UK but here you get accepted, rejected, or wait-listed. Is that a thing in the UK? or is it rejected/accepted. If there is a wait-list concept, then I would write to or call both schools and assure them they are your top choice and you would take an offer if given. To be honest, I might try that anyway - write and say "you remain our top choice of school for our son because of your clear commitment to blah blah blah and demonstration of blah blah blah. Should a place become available as you deal with accepted offers, please know that we would definitely accept it"

Maidavala: HUGE hugs to you and your DS. So sorry to hear about the stress you are going through. It puts mine well into perspective. I would be in the same scenario right now except that right before the cut off for registrations I had a conversation with a Mum who told me that her child had applied to 4 'realistic' schools 2 yrs ago and got none. I panicked and registered for more. The options for 'average' kids are negligible. (yet MOST kids are 'coasting average'!!!). The schools talk the talk about not wanting them tutored, take into account the 'whole child' etc is complete rubbish. The reality is it suits them very well to have 10 / 11 yr olds served up on a silver platter all prepped and pristine with GCSE level maths at the age of 10 etc. Any head who genuinely does want to assess the whole child does not have the resources to do so with 800 or so applying for 80 places.

Oh and there seem to be SO many more options for girls than boys in London, especially north London. We really really struggled to find decent private schools for academically average kids where we have a hope in hell of getting into. Seems like they only want the brightest kids and the rest just get chucked on the scrap heap. Sorry, sounding very bitter here.

Fifthtimelucky, you sound really smug. I don't know anyone who didn't tutor or are your DCs already at an independent school where they are prepped for entrance exams? Even the brightest kids at state schools need some tutoring. As for sitting 8 entrance exams, yes it's awful, but you need to cast the net wide. One of DS's friend is seriously bright but only applied for 4 schools (2 very sought after, 1 supposedly less sought after, and 1 back-up) and only got the back that they don't really want. They wish that he had sat for one or two other schools so that they have more options.

Mumstheword, hope your daughter is ok. We are in a similar boat although DS got NO offers at all and 2 wait-lists. He is putting on a brave face but I can tell he is upset and his confidence has taken a massive blow. I just want to hug him and protect him from this awful system. We only tried private as the local state options are dire. Looks like we will now need to move house or just accept the local state school.

Thanks OVienna. Its good to have a good rant

Tissunnyupnorth: That all makes sense. Without going into detail it's mainly the SW indie schools but not the super ambitious ones such as SPGS! We didn't think we were being ambitious but luckily cast the net wide just in case! And here we are. Dealing with it a bit better today and googling lot's of nice reviews of the school she was offered. Trying to look on the bright side. I think she is dreading going back to school after the mid term and hearing about the girls who were offered places to the schools she would have liked. One Mum turned up at a school sports event the day of the offers and told her DD there and then that she got a scholarship at said school. DD heard it. You'd think she could have waited to tell her at home.

Without knowing the schools that you applied to I can’t advise specifically. My DD sat for 3 schools. What I can say is that it was a funny year for the consortium this year (DD didn’t do the consortium exam). One of the schools, Channing (which perhaps some have viewed previously as a back up), made a mistake on their prep school offers many years ago, have a double form, as a consequence, coming up to the senior school. This has meant they have significantly fewer places to offfer this year, as a physically small school they cannot exceed numbers. Many parents, knowing this and also trying to protect themselves from Channings exploding offer system, have added South Hampstead to their list as well as Channing. This has increased pressure on consortium places. If you add this to a higher birth rate, it might mean that your DD has had an unfortunately set of circumstances against her this year, as opposed to it being her own abilities that have meant fewer offers for her.

@Mumstheword82 you've done everything i would have done to look after your daughter's interests. Vent all you like!

Fifthtimelucky: Your kids must be a lot smarter than my DD. What can I say. If we had just applied to the one we wanted and one reserve then she most definitely wouldn’t have an offer right now. A UCAS system is a good idea.

I didn’t make my child sit 8 exams. 5 of the schools were in the consortium so she sat 4 exams. I had originally registered with fewer schools and was advised to register for more which turns out was good advice! She had a little tutoring to prepare but it was peanuts compared to what some kids are doing. Maybe I was too naive (although I don’t regret it).

Wombat: I realise it is all raw and we’ll get over it. It is just a shame that she is upset as she was so relaxed throughout the whole process up until now. She didn’t even remember the results were out yesterday. I have literally NEVER expressed an opinion to my DD about schools and have insisted that she has done well to get the offer she has. She is disappointed because she knows most girls from her school get an offer from the schools that refused her. I’ve tried my best to shield her from that but I can’t control what she sees and hears at school.

I’ve avoided other chit chat with parents like the plague. If I’m on here venting it’s because I can’t and won’t do it anywhere else.