Alleyn's 11+ 2019

WildViking, ds started tutoring in the summer holiday prior to Year 5. This was mostly working on creative writing as he could only write a few sentences in 45 minutes and really disliked it. We went through a couple of 1-1 tutors during the holidays - I wasn't happy with their approaches. Ds then started with a group tutor for two hours on a Saturday who had a very rigid and quite formulaic approach. This tutor knew the exams for all of the top schools inside out. He did work them hard though - taught concepts in class/maths not covered yet by the curriculum, which mock exams to go for etc.

This approach worked for ds as he's quite logical but it was hard and it required a big commitment from me and ds. The thing I liked about the group was that ds was up against some very hard working and committed children. He was coasting a bit on the 'top' table at school but we found that quite a few of the top table children didn't get past the first rounds as they simply hadn't been taught the right technique to ensure speed and accuracy. I don't know anyone who got a place in these schools without formal tutoring, either at home or with a tutor, but there must be some? Ignore the schools when they say they can weed out the tutored kids - they can't!

@JCDaddy actually our son is much stronger in maths than English :-)

@MrsPatmore would you mind telling me how long for and how often your DS was tutored? I am not from the UK and have one child only so no experience at all and it would be really helpful to hear how others prepared for the exams.

Thanks Abetes and MrsP for that valuable info.

I love hearing the opinions/advice of people who have been through this process before as it is incredibly helpful.

Last year there were six Saddlers Scholars (awarded to the top six children in the exam who accept the place at the school) and another fifteen academic scholars (some have a major award and some a minor award).

89fomveg there were about 3-4 children who went in (to different staff members) at our allotted time. We hung around afterwards as we were chatting to people we knew (and there were nice biscuits!). There was a steady stream of kids but not too many. Alleyns also have top scholarships, think they're called Sadlers Scholars' but you don't know whether you will be offered one of these until you accept the place.

Basically there's a general interview, 'what are you reading, hypothetical question' type of conversation (see threads below) and then an English and maths interview. Can't remember the maths but the English was a discussion on a poem. Maybe look through poems about nature, youth, ageing etc. just to familiarise your child.

On a separate note, does anyone know how many DC are usually invited for the 11+ academic scholarship interviews at Alleyns?

How many scholarships are on offer and what the interview questions are like?

Many thanks.

Sorry, genuinely not mean I go to boast, just trying to illustrate the level of preparedness (is that a word?) for these types of exams. Unfortunately we couldn't leave things to chance as we were bursary candidates so knew ds had to perform well. Horrible system but I guess we had a choice to do it or not!

there will always be kids who get places across the board. (I think you may have mentioned your ds's stellar performance a couple of times before MrsP!) - my point was that for most kids, the results are a mixed bag and there is little consistency.

and all of these schools will only be considering academic performance in considering who to invites to interview. grade 5 / county rugby has no bearing on that.

Commiserations to those that didn't get Alleyns - easy for me to say but the kids do seem to end up at the right schools for them and Alleyns has far fewer places at 11+ as it's co-Ed and the children also come up from their own prep.

I can see what JCdaddy means. There is a certain cohort of child that will have been intensively prepared for the 11+ and the super selectives (mine included) and unfortunately it does seem to take this sort of level of preparation to get through. My ds won places with academic scholarships at both Alleyns, DC and WUS (without scholarship). Some of his classmates didn't pass the Grammar school tests but were tutored - some received offers from both or one or the other or none. They were all taught the importance of going for the big point questions and getting to the end of the paper to maximise marks. The slightly less academic ones seemed to have things like county rugby or grade 5 instrument qualifications. I also think they favour the children of certain schools. Ds school had about 12 offers from about 20 sitting the test.

JDaddy - I never said that you should depend on luck? Just that this is a random process. Of course you should prepare, but even the best prepared brightest kid can still stumble in one (or indeed several) of these processes.

Getting 3 inerviews out of 5 similar applications - that is random. The child can jump the academic hurdle but somehow miscued it twice. I do agree that at interview schools can be looking for slightly different things - but ultimately these schools all want bright, enthusiastic kids?

Completely disagree that DC is stronger in maths and Alleyns at English? What are you basing that on?

Luck & random is part of the game but not play a major role. 1 interviews/offers out of 5 schools applied - this is luck or random. 3 or more interviews/offers out of 5 school applied - this is the ability.

When preparing such a stressful 11+ exams, I certainly would not hang the hope on luck or other random factors, but well-prepared.

Apparently, schools have their own focus. In my own opinion, Dulwich is more Maths-focused school whereas Alleyn's & KCS are more on English. That means it's more likely you get interviews/offers from Dulwich if Maths is the children's strong subject but English is slightly weaker. That also explains why some children admit to school with scholarship but not offered by other schools.

@wildviking, ISEB exam format is different as it's computerized multi-choice. Not sure 13+, but with my 11+ experience, If your DC got Kings but not Alleyn's & Dulwich, I can only assume his English is much stronger than his Maths, as King's Maths is probably the easiest amongest the three schools (by looking at sample papers).

You can talk to the head teacher of his school to ask where he stands in the school and in the borough. In general, e.g. top 10%, top 15% or top 20%.
Also, you can take the mock tests to see where your child stands compare to children in other boroughs.

None of these gives you an exact estimation but it will be good enough.

Hope that helps.

DC have a huge intake at 13 (roughly 80 boys) - the year goes from 6 classes to 10. Alleyns take 20 max - so 10 boys and 10 girls.

Agree with you Blodwen9, it is very random. Ours got Kings (13+) but not Alleys or Dulwich, unfortunately Dulwich is the one he wants so we will try again at 13. Luckily he can continue at his current school until then and if he is unlucky again, we possibly have Kings.

JCDadday - how do you know where your child sits within his/her year group? We did very little prep for 11+ and, as the main exit point for us is at 13, the school only prepared us for ISEBs. We obviously know his CAT scores and he is in the top 5% but it is also a question of preparation not just ability and I would expect a lot/most of the kids were thoroughly prepared. I am now just trying to figure out how much extra work we need to do to get to Dulwich next time around. For me knowing how many other boys he will be competing against would be helpful. Would also help in deciding whether we will give Alleyns another try.

JCDaddy top 10% is meaningless though? Depends which primary/prep school you are at? My dc's school about 50% would get offers from the kind of school you mention

I think with most of these processes there is a huge element of luck. If the exam falls on a day they're not 100% / they get stuck on an early maths question / they don't like the comprehension text -then the whole thing is blown apart?

So I have a DS who got DC but not Alleyns - his best friend had the opposite result. And also know of examples of kids getting scholarships to ne Dulwich school and not even an offer from another.

Just saying that it's all very random and that a 'no thank you' from one of these schools is pretty meaningless in the fullness of time.

re the 13+.... Alleyns is mega competitive. only about 20 spots available and they all go to superstars.

DS is invited to an academic interview which is not really a surprise. Like to share some of my thoughts, but Not sure if everyone likes this (definitely not a show off) - it's more important to focus on improving our DC's performance rather than calculating the odd. My DS took the SPS exam and he saw pretty much the same group of children in KCS, Alleyn's, Dulwich exams. I believe those children are top 10% of their peers and they are very likely to be offered by those schools.
If your DC is not within top 15% of the group (not in his class or his schools, but in all 10-11 years children), probably the chance is slim.
13+ and 16+, I would assume is even more competitive.

I understand the disappointment and the hurting feeling when getting a 'no' as we experienced the same last year in 10+ (I still remember my DS covered his face and tears tickled down his cheek, on his hand it's a 'no' letter from a school last year). Positively guide your DC, do not give up and work harder, it will be paid off eventually.

Good lucky to all your DC.

Blodwen9 Oh! thank you for your info. I must mix up with St Dunstan's interview , just remember in the letter Alleyn's said that we will spend 90 mins in total.

For us it was a no too. There seems to have a been a large number of applicants, does anyone know how that compares with 13+? The number of places is significantly lower, is that the same for applications?

MumofLL the Alleyns Saturday interview is not 3 x 3 subject interviews, it's a group fun exercise and then an individual 20-30 minute interview with a teacher. The 3 interview set up is for a scholarship interview which is not on the Saturday.

Those who got a no - Alleyns will give you feedback if you ask.

We received our letter today and unfortunately is a 'No' so very dissapointed. It does say that they have had over 900 applicants this year.

MumofLL- well done to your DS and good luck to him for both interviews. I’m new to mumsnet and finding it a great source of information. Thank you all 😀

Nothing in the post! I wonder if I should call them tomorrow. Anyone else still waiting to hear?

It’s a no for us too. Poor DS worked so so hard and hes really disappointed. But also 2 out of 3 for us so still pretty good! But still a bit sad

MrsPatmore It is very tricky and they do not offer an alternative appointment. Luckily, a invitation letter from Alleyn's early today offers an afternoon session while St Dunstan one is in the morning.

OTT2019 Indeed, two interviews on the same day! 30 mins x 3 subject sessions for both schools. I do feel for my DS, but he seems to be alright. (came back home, listened to the news for 30 secs and off to play games! ) Well, good luck to you and everyone waiting for the news.