Lord Adonis wants Oxbridge to set up colleges for poor kids

Just thought I would check back in here. .I am delighted to hear how much has changed at Oxbridge since my day and indeed some news yesterday seemed to bear that out:
www.theguardian.com/education/2019/jan/15/london-state-school-brampton-manor-41-students-offered-oxbridge-place?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
And my DC’s own school which I’d assumed to be the kind of inner City comp from which most high achievers preferred London colleges, is thrilled to announce 6 Oxbridge offers this year mostly science I suspect, certainly a record for a small 6th form only 3 or 4 years old I believe. So happy to stand corrected.
But even my day (78 - 81 would you credit it!) state school students numbered around 50% of Oxbridge intake or not much below - so a big minority at worst. But where were they? I barely saw them at the mostly arty clubs and theatre groups I attempted to join in my first year. . . All dominated by super-confident, super competent, terrifyingly brilliant private schoolkids (Emma Thompson, Stephen Fry, Hugh Laurie etc . .To name the most of the most, but there were plenty more; Nicholas Hytner, Ed Stourton etc etc.. . I crossed paths with them all, but they would not even have remembered me then, why should they? I barely spoke.)
Where were those 50% other state school kids like me? Well, they stayed in their rooms, worked hard, occasionally went to pub with couple of equally untrendy mates, and kept clear of the glam societies, and that’s what I did too from then on. Except I barely even made it to the pub.

UNIQ has increased its places on offer by over 50% this year, because the data from that does show that it has an effect on proportions of state school applications (and admissions I assume). Things are changing, which is why people like marytuda are so infuriating!

However at Oxford at least there is a great deal of interest in creating more foundation years

I haven't heard that other colleges have plans, but it could be interesting if true. LMH only take about 10 students on their foundation year though (last year 9 out of the 10 got offers) - limits on resources still apply - so it's only going to make a small difference unless there was a huge movement towards them.

Realised that neither Adonis nor PPs have mentioned that actually a month ago, a new graduate college was announced.
www.ox.ac.uk/news/2018-12-07-oxford-unveils-plans-new-graduate-college

Bad idea, not great to create ghettos.

However at Oxford at least there is a great deal of interest in creating more foundation years, as well as increasing other widening participation schemes, including ones that start with working with Primary schools.

Well - and I realise this is off topic so please anyone say if they want me to pull this off the thread - Andrew was always more Andrew than Adonis.

Selective schools ( independent or not) are going to get more ( whether Oxbridge or not) more places at highly regarded and selective universities , because they are selective , so chosen the brighter children.

There was a very very interesting post which I cannot find and I wish I could. If anyone knows it - it was an article about a number of tutors discussing who should get a place and one candidate - they said X won't be able to keep up. so sadly we should not offer X a place. I must google this - it was a poignant and interesting article.

Not sure having different colleges is the way to go. I think greater access and information from schools - but there you go ( motherhood and apple pie) I am not a university lecturer nor involved in outreach. But confidence to apply I would say and then some knowledge of different applicants experience. But what do I know.

& by the way I would say that for a great many universities - not just Oxford and Cambridge which make great headline news but do not corner the market in a very very very good tertiary education.

He's a Tony Crony, nuff said

He usually wants to tell people what to do. Just because he had a difficult upbringing doesn’t make him right! Also what’s his family situation got to do with HS2? Why doesn’t he champion British industry to build the railway? He’s conveniently forgotten the need for jobs in the uk! As I said, he’s accountable to no one.

As for Adonis's idea ... I'm definitely not keen on the segregation aspect, but it's sort of interesting. There are some subjects which are very private school heavy, and some which are dominated by state school students. Increasing numbers on the latter could be one way of shifting proportions, but resources (such as college accommodation and staff) are finite (or at least slow and expensive to increase) which would mean decreasing numbers on other courses - no one wants to make classics fellows redundant though So this is a different way of providing more resources.

I'm wondering whether he's party to any inside conversations about this stuff or whether he's just completely fantasising. I love that he's offering to help found a new college Do we think he's planning on stumping up a large pile of readies, or just wants to tell everyone what to do?

but the colleges, while they might encourage a few underprivileged individuals, are bound to resist that critical-mass-assault on their very soul

Fucks sake. This is just offensive rubbish. Are you literally basing your whole argument on your long-past experience? Because maybe you should try doing some up-to-date research.

If we're pulling anecdata out of our arses, I was a lower middle class kid on a variety of scholarships to private schools, and I had a bloody brilliant time at Oxford. Even without the ski breaks or domestic staff!

It is not the job of universities to make up for the failings of the Department for Education. It is for the government to give children the opportunity to reach their potential. It is also about time the government realised that there are many measures of success - not just A Level results and university degrees.

Bubbles - true, and I did lack confidence but there was also something very specific that I should have done in preparation that I didn't know about that everyone else did!

You can't write from your experience if that experience was years ago. Oxford and Cambridge are very different places now. The majority of students are state educated for a start, admittedly a lot in grammars, but the idea that you have to ski and have a housekeeper in order to fit in is ridiculous.

As obviously is Adonis's idea.

I welcome any contribution to this debate and don't see any reason to be abusive, however you may rate Adonis’ idea . . . The point IMO is that if Oxbridge were serious about welcoming low-income applicants, they would have to change their culture in a way I doubt they are prepared to. Because they are not just elitist in intellectual terms, but also socially. At the moment, it is in their DNA that only the exceptionally able AND exceptionally privileged are at home there. . . . To fit in socially, even now, I imagine, it helps enormously to have an easy relationship to wealth and upper-middle class mores (ski-breaks, private education, hired domestic staff as standard) that your ex- comp student, however brainy, won’t. Many very bright comp students don't consider applying for this reason; why should they? when there are a plethora of great London colleges and other RG unis around where they know they will feel more at ease.
A big influx of non-privileged brains at Oxbridge (however achieved) might just tip that balance, but the colleges, while they might encourage a few underprivileged individuals, are bound to resist that critical-mass-assault on their very soul, just as top private schools do.
I write from experience; it's a long time ago now, and I was a fairly middle-class, ex-grammar school girl (in the days when comps barely existed), but still I was miserable at Oxbridge, without the social or self-confidence to deal with the, often demeaning treatment meted out to the very few state school girls there at the time by ex-public school boys - and occasionally by male staff.
Did anyone see the film Posh? Remember the scene where the state-school girlfriend is pimped to the posh students in exchange for paying off her student debt? Decades later that awakened some painful repressed memories. I do believe changes are bound to be minimal in places which take such pride in august tradition, good and bad.
A good piece from Carole Cadwalladr:
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/18/oxbridge-perpetuates-inequality

Oh I think it's a great idea. I mean, you dont want to spend all that money educating them privately only to have them have to compete on a level playing field at Oxbridge.

Maybe the poor people's colleges could be a bit like the work house?

He's a twat. A few years ago these idiots were suggesting special grammar school sets for 'poor kids' who 'didn't meet the grade. Not suggesting that bright students on lower incomes are supported to do 11plus and helped to pass, no given a free pass and segregated in a different part of the school. Fuck off.

I think that of all people, Andrew Adonis, who was abandoned by his parents and brought up in the care system, has unique insights into the difficulties faced by clever disadvantaged children. It is to his credit, that despite his phenomenal success against the odds, he has not forgotten his roots and continues to campaign to help those like him.

Some of the comments on this thread are just offensive.

Actually prepping for months doesn’t necessarily help. A naturally inquisitive personality and being able to articulate your thoughts well is the key. Not all the prepped types get in. They spot them a mile off! It doesn’t mask the student not being good enough. If you are saying you didn’t have confidence, that’s a different issue.

Competely misses the point! I got top A-level results which I know doesn't guarantee an Oxbridge place but my state school had no clue on how to apply! When I went up to interview I was competing with people who had been intensively preparing for MONTHS. Needless to say, I didn't get in!

What a prize penis he is

Adonis is a non elected blue sky thinker. Unfortunately people take notice of him. I think he was behind academy schools? Others will know better than me! He likes spending government money and government keeps agreeing to it!

Hopefully not in this case. Yes to wider participation, no to segregation! Having said that, there are universities in the USA that were set up for Afro American students. No one seems to criticise them. However innthis day an age, I don’t like the idea of segregation and division in the same institution as suggested.

Lets not let's!

Presumably so the other colleges can concentrate on the rich ones

Exactly - it let's everyone else off the hook and creates a two-tiered system.

Agree with other posters about school funding cuts, resources and also the culture shift needed in some schools (I tried encouraging some girls at a London secondary - where I was doing work experience as a recent graduate - to apply to Oxford, and they were adamant that their teacher had told them they couldn't apply unless they'd been to a private school )

My old college recently set up a foundation year programme www.lmh.ox.ac.uk/prospective-students/foundation-year
which sounds to me like an excellent idea though it's early days and I haven't seen any independent data. It's fully funded and designed to help students from under-represented groups access degrees at Oxford.

Work dead!!! Ideas

He's a dickhead and not known for his good work dead. HS2 anyone?