Shout and scream or Coffee and Tea??

During my whole school career I was average. Not bottom set but just average and ambled along. The thing is I was competing against my twin who was a top set, A* student. He absolutely flew in maths, English and science and was moved up to the year above. At home, at parents evening, at school I was asked over and over why I was not progressing faster. Why was I not in the top set like my twin. What was going wrong. Could I be pushed to do better? The answer is no, no amount of pushing (my parents tried) would change the fact that I was average in those subjects.
The biggest issue with this and something that still hurts me today is the fact my parents and teachers were so focused on my achievements in maths etc... that they failed to recognise and nurture my actual talents, which were in social care (I got a good grade in that Luckily, by myself). The comments I mentioned above made me hate education. I never felt good enough. No one realised I was good at other things so as a consequence I gave up. I preferred hanging out with my mates and skipping lessons. I didn't see the point in trying as I was not like my twin. I did leave school with some ok grades, through sheer luck I think.
I'm 30 now and I have a very good career, I went back to college then on to university as an adult off my own back. I was told I'd never get a degree by everyone. I have progressed further than I could have imagined. Without blowing my own trumpet I'm pretty good at it. You know what it's in ! Social care.
I have never been congratulated by my parents. I think my mother feels slightly embarrassed by the fact that she adored my twin as he was good at maths and told anyone who would listen. You know what he is in an average job and dropped out of uni. Part of that is that as he got older the pushing and high expectations got too much and he fell out of love with education. I earn and have potential to earn much more than he ever will. You know what though. I'd have got here a lot sooner and before I had to do it with kids in tow and self fund uni, if my parents had recognised that I had talents elsewhere.
I have never once had anyone say they are proud of me.They all huddled round my twin on results day. I'd still love to hear it from my mum now.
So the point to this incredibly long story, stop pushing. Help, tell her your proud, make learning fun, recognise and nurture her talents and interests even if the lie elsewhere.

Put her in private school if she's not overly bright and you want her to get good grades.

I admit I thought this too.

OP, how on Earth do you think schools operate?!

School cannot allow your daughter to drop a few subjects to concentrate on English and Maths. A) they don't have the staff to allow for this- all staff will have a full timetable as they will be teaching all the other children in the school. B) Your DD is being taught the KS3 National Curriculum which has a lot of content. She cannot skip some of it.

Your options appear to be: work in partnership with the school- ask the English teacher or subject lead what you can be doing to support her at home. Same for Maths and Science. Speak to your daughter- is she working to the best of her ability or could she perhaps up her game (having a DF who refers to her as his little girl at 12 only reinforces to her that Daddy will always be there to pick up the pieces for her. She needs to learn to take ownership of her own learning). If you have genuine concerns that she still isn't making progress after you've done all the above- speak to the school SENCO and possibly your GP to see if she may have an underlying issue which could be investigated. Ooh- and book an opticians appointment. It always amazes me that some kids in KS3 are completely blind as bats and don't say anything to anyone. You might find that she needs glasses and makes progress after this.

But don't bash the teaching profession. The teachers in her school are held to account and do not need additional checks and measures put in place by you- an unqualified and seemingly uninformed parent who actually has no idea how the curriculum operates or how school operates. If you want to get involved- great! Join the governing body or something. Be proactive.

And Maths, I meant to write!

Maybe your child just belongs in bottom band? If you throw her in a higher band and she bombs it then her confidence will nosedive and you'll see very bad results. Do you and her mother have good qualifications?

If it helps, I was in band 3 (4th band out of 7) at secondary... I still managed the highest English grade in the year at GCSE. A bright child will achieve good grades no matter the band.

Put her in private school if she's not overly bright and you want her to get good grades.

Give her time to settle into the new school. The English and English will come together. Especially if you've got a good tutor. Encourage her passions and interests. If she can excel at those it would be wonderful if she could turn them into a career. It's everybody's dream to do something they love and prospective employers will see that spark because it will be obvious. And if they don't she will know how to set herself up in business.

('unfit for purpose', not progress. Freudian...)

Jeez, you sound like a hard ass. I have a successful career in the arts and I needed one E at GCSE to get it. Imagine being forced to do extra maths science and English at school. What a lovely school life that would be.

You'll ruin her school days which are supposed to be a time to learn and grow and develop - not just academically - and she won't thank you for it. Back off and let her grow. There's plenty of time for tutoring later if you're still intent on pushing her somewhere she doesn't want to go.

If it were just one subject she was struggling in, I would say look at what the teacher is doing and how others in the class are progressing etc as it could well be a bad teacher problem. If she is struggling across the board (and also did so in primary school), it suggests that the school isn’t the problem, but maybe her ability. I would speak to the school about her lack of progress, not to complain, but to ask for their insight as to what they think her problem is and how it can be addressed. All teachers have a whole class to teach so I doubt they are singling your DD out to give her crappy teaching- she just might not be that academically inclined. Any approach to the school should be from a perspective of requesting support, not the ‘bollocking attitude’- you can’t actually identify any specific thing to criticize, just your DD’s performance.

Obviously your concern is understandable and it’s good that you are taking an interest in her education, but do so in the appropriate way. Tutoring may provide a good indication of whether she can improve with one to one support and to what extent.

You talk a lot about what you are doing with/for your daughter. And an awful lot about what the school/teachers should be doing.

But you know who matters most in this picture? Your daughter. And you are really quiet about her input, frankly.

I’m now treating her lack of progress like a complaint basically

^^And this is just one of the reasons our accountability system is now almost entirely unfit for progress. Parents seeing themselves as customers, with top grades an entitlement for all. And blaming everyone but their own kid if their own kid won't - or, poor sod, can't - perform exactly as mummy and daddy demand.

Schools don’t have any teachers just sitting around twiddling their thumbs wondering what to do. They will have full timetables with classes to teach.

’I wondered if they could swap a couple of subjects outside of the Maths English and Science, and give her extra coaching in Maths and English in those time slots.’

1. Who would do the coaching?
2. Would you really want your DD to miss out on subjects that she might actually be good at/enjoy/have a future in?

I think you should home school her. Then post us the updates.

I wondered if they could swap a couple of subjects outside of the Maths English and Science, and give her extra coaching in Maths and English in those time slots.

Because I am sure the school has a couple of spare teachers sitting around doing nothing in those lessons just waiting to 'coach' your DD!

You still haven't said on what basis you are assessing progress? Have you had a report yet, or a parents evening?

If your DD enjoys the 'artsy' subjects as you so condescendingly call them, let her enjoy them. There are some very rich You Tubers out there you know!

Swap a couple of subjects?
You really have no understanding of how schools and staffing work.
You’ve not answered any questions about her level of ability or effort.
Are you being deliberately obtuse or just a troll?

Oh, hang on- she’s in year7. Children often make little progress at the beginning of year 7 because the transition from primary is a huge step. I wouldn’t be worrying yet if she’s happy and settling in well.

You sound just like my dad. I wasn’t interested in any of that, but I was very good at it and it was expected of me so that’s what I did for my whole school career. All the science subjects and maths. I managed to squeeze in music and Latin but only because the Latin teacher gave up her time to let me sit the subject outside of the actual class times. But I did what my dad told me and that was “employers only care about science”. I went to uni and studied science, I got a job in that field. I hated every minute of it.

6 months after uni I retrained in an artistic field (which is what I’d always wanted to do but was told not to waste my talent at ‘smart’ subjects). I now run a successfull business, based on the arts. My school career, my degree and my 6 months working were a complete waste of my time. And I only did it because of the force my dad used when discussing school.

If she’s not smart, then sorry but she’s just not got the ability you want her to have. You can push her and get her tutors and all the rest of it, or you can find out what SHE wants. What are her strengths? What does he enjoy? Who does she want to be?

How's your girls confidence ? I was very shy starting secondary school and it didn't help as I was afraid to ask questions or for help from others or the teachers.

I was in the bottom sets of some subjects, when joining my comp. (We has 3 sets, there were 6 classes - so supposedly 2 tops sets, 2 middle, 2 bottom) I didn't want to be with those bottom set children, as a lot of them their behaviour was horrendous and they didn't want to learn. I was desperate to move up and did manage it in most subjects ( apart from French) I just literally did my own homework making flash cards, so rewriting out my notes helped it go over it and to understand it more.

One thing I would say is I made a lovely couple of friends in the bottoms sets, so not all the children were bad.

My parents were very hands off, both very intelligent naturally but both went to Grammar schools. They had no idea that sets determine what GCSE paper you take and therefore limit your grades.

I did ok in my GCSEs gaining a couple of As, one being in Art but also English. I managed a C in maths but I did find that really hard having moved up sets slowly.

Anyway maybe try a different approach something like drama club or I don't know pottery or jewellery making . I started drama to push myself.

Get her to find something she can gain confidence in and enjoy and that will help her. Plus I think giving your time to run through work with her is important.

It's a big job to speak to each teacher of each subject, and you don't want to embarrass her or make her feel pressured but I can't see it can hurt to show you care. Does she have a form tutor you can start with rather than people that might not know her so well such as head of years?

So is she making no progress as in has gained no maths knowledge over the last 3 months or as in hasn't moved up a set?
What does her tutor think?

What are yo uand your wife actually arguing about?

Keep encouraging her arty side. Having self confidence in herself will help in the areas she's less strong at

’When do you want school to do this ‘coaching’ and how do you propose they find staff to do this?’
^ This.

Instead, why not ask the maths teacher for a small set of targets for your DD and work on these with her at home (or get a tutor to). Then next term ask for a new set of targets, etc, etc.

Are you saying she’s made no progress in English and maths in over a year? What do her teachers say at parent’s evening? Because that will have been flagged as an issue by the school. What does her tutor say about her maths?

Incidentally, she’s 12. Maybe time to stop calling her a “little girl”?

She hasn’t any SEN yet she’s in the bottom set? Is she actually working?
You seem focused on what you want her to achieve but without any actual understanding of her level of competence or ability.
I can want to be an astronaut. Doesn’t mean I could ever do it. Some kids can’t get top grades in English and Maths. This is even more true in the U.K. where the top GCSE grades are getting harder and harder to achieve.

When you had parents evening/ report last half term did they discuss your child’s effort? If she’s really trying her best and still not doing as well as you perceive she should maybe she needs to explore other areas of the curriculum to boost her confidence.
For what it’s worth she will probably have picked up on the tension at home home and your aspirations so try to have a more constructive dialogue with you oh.
Is she happy at school? Did she go up with her friends or is she making new friends?