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Shout and scream or Coffee and Tea??

166 replies

leightonupman · 09/01/2019 08:45

Hi there all

I could use your worldly wisdom re my 12 year old little girl.

She’s just started secondary school and has landed in the lowest band.

She’s getting on ok but I’m unhappy about her staying there. The longer she stays there the more comfortable she’s becoming, and the harder I can see it will be to get her to move up a band. Being a Dad I’m terrified she’ll end up in a sht job - hey you gotta think long term right? To my mind we need to intervene now in year 7 whilst she’s doing Key Stage 3, so she’s got a fighting chance of getting some decent GCSEs post KS4.

We are providing a maths tutor to help her once a week, Maths being her weakest area. We are also giving her homework in the absence of homework coming from the school. They don’t seem to give it much at the moment, which is annoying the hell out of me.

Long and short is I am having real trouble putting faith in the school to help her improve - my gut feeling is that they are happy for her to just amble along as she is instead of making extra effort to help her improve and move up, which I can’t accept. I’m not convinced that moving up a band is entirely based on merit or hard results. I think they sometimes move a kid just to move a problem from one place to another. This is my little girl’s future right?

All this angst is taking its toll on me and my wife. My girl is out of earshot when we’re rowing about it. It’s a cause of arguments at home with my wife. I’ve had the initial meeting with the head of KS which didn’t fill me with confidence. Early on in primary school I pressed for extra help but got told to back off and let them do their job, which I accepted at the time. But guess what? My girl didn’t improve and ends up in the lower band in secondary. This time I’m determined not to make the same mistake. I’m taking full control to make sure she’s improving, in loads of time before GCSEs.

We can only do so much at home with the tutor and homework we give her but the kid has to have a life as well right?

When we’ve spoken to her a few times about moving up, she’s not a fan of change and so the move is daunting, but I think she would be glad really - a move up is an affirming thing right?

I’m now treating her lack of progress like a complaint basically. I’m pulling together whatever data I can and getting ready to hurl it at the school and the board in the (likely) event she still hasn’t improved by end of the second term. I’m worried they will try to b sht us again and still do nothing to help.

Should I back off? If so how much? Leave her to it? Or do I go full out and put in a formal complaint that the school isn’t doing enough to help her improve . Where is the middle line? And do I need to stop worrying so much about her future and let things be what will be? And what’s the right approach with the school? A series of calm measured discussions over the coming months to work out what needs to change (not working so far btw), or do I go old school and give the teachers a boll**cking? Sadly this approach seems to have worked for at least one parent I know. Sometimes in big businesses when complaining as a consumer, he who shouts loudest gets heard, and it’s worked for me before, but is this the right approach now?? I can't see an approach to take with teachers that will give me the outcomes we want? What approach works best with teachers to get results from them? Sounds cold I know but please cut me some slack - I'm a stupid bloke. It's the reason I'm asking you guys

I know these teachers are under incredible strain as it is and I am the last one to make someone’s life worse. But again this is my kid’s future. Bottom line is we need my girl to be ready to do well when she gets to KS4 and beyond.

And if there’s any doubt here, we both love this little girl beyond measure - she’s the centre of our lives and just want to do right by her and I will do whatever it takes.

Help me sensible ones, could really use some different perspectives and strategies etc. Smile

OP posts:
leightonupman · 09/01/2019 12:53

Cheers fevertree, vote of confidence appreciated!! Been a rough ride this thread but I'm bloody glad I asked before rushing headlong off a cliff! Worth its weight frankly! Smile

OP posts:
leightonupman · 09/01/2019 12:51

Woolduvet thanks. Can I ask then did she stay in the bottom set and get better in all but English until you gently pressed the teacher to give her a chance?
It's sounds like they were willing to swap French at least for extra support which is encouraging!
Did you give extra support out of school on subjects she liked, to build up her general ability? Was that the idea? Sounds like it worked??

Seeline thanks - I get the idea. Fantastic will again try. Thanks for coming back.

OP posts:
Fevertree · 09/01/2019 12:50

Just wanted to pop on the thread and say well done dad for listening to the advice and making a plan for your dd 😊 it's hard when we feel our kids aren't progressing as we feel they should. It seems like you're doing the right thing.

Seeline · 09/01/2019 12:37

“the next night she would have to fill in the gaps”? This sounds good but I don’t think I fully understand.

Basically I read chapter 1. DD would carry on reading until lights out, so maybe 2 more chapters. The next night I couldn't possibly read chapter 4 to her until I knew what had happened in chapter 2 and 3 - it wouldn't make any sense would it? So she had to fill me in on what had happened. Sometimes if something came up which I hadn't come across (obviously related to something in a chapter she had read) I would ask her to explain. Helps with comprehension etc. And we could also chat about hte plot, or different characters, their actions, what we might do in a similar circumstance etc.

woolduvet · 09/01/2019 12:33

My dd school were excellent at helping her achieve in every area but English. She'd steadily climbed the groups in everything but this. She has dyslexia and was taught for three years in the bottom set by the same teacher. No disrespect to her and I think it was a very hard group but my daughter had proved she could do better in every other subject, it was just her written English that was letting her down. I spoke to the head of English and explained it all (calmly) that she deserved a chance. So they moved her up and she got a B which we were thrilled at.
They also gave her permission to not do French and she had extra support lessons in that time.
We also gave her every credit and support for the lessons that she loved too, including out of school music lessons.

leightonupman · 09/01/2019 12:33

Thanks again..

Reading book at the same time - check.

Can you clarify “the next night she would have to fill in the gaps”? This sounds good but I don’t think I fully understand.

A play script also sounds a fantastic idea! Much more likely to engage her.

Newspaper report yep get it - just finding the best fit for her to read will be the challenge there.

Cooking. - yep again for sure I can adapt the process to play to her interests I think.

Computer coding - I’ve been looking around for an after school club but I haven’t found one. I’ll keep looking though.

OP posts:
leightonupman · 09/01/2019 12:25

Hey this is great stuff thanks. Re cooking, shopping, change etc, alas she's not a fan of cooking per say but I could adapt that to what she does like eg SLIME! Hey we do what we must right?

Re the reading, I think you've got something there. Us both reading the same book together would definitely engage her (so long as I let her choose the book!). And re film and theatre, also a great tip I will definitely try out thanks.

I've only played scrabble once or twice myself in the past but more than willing to dust off the old board to try it out with her. Will definitely give the taboo and articulate games a go too, thanks! Wink

OP posts:
Seeline · 09/01/2019 12:21

Without knowing her actual ability, it's difficult to know where to pitch advice. I assume she can read reasonably well? Helping her comprehension, being able to infer things from the text etc are useful skills.
How about picking a book and reading it at the same time so that you can both talk about the plot, characters etc.
Another option my DD used to enjoy was reading a book together - I read a chapter at bed time, then she would carry on reading until lights out. The next night she would have to fill in the gaps, before I carried on reading. It helps to make sure they are understanding what they area reading. Being able to re-tell a story succinctly is an important skill.
Or how about a play script, and each reading different parts?
Reading newspaper reports and then discussing hte topic - can be on any subject that interests her.
Maths is harder, but even things like cooking help with numbers.
Would she be interested in computer coding eg.

SnugglySnerd · 09/01/2019 12:16

To practise maths what about cooking - weighing out ingredients, scaling recipes up or down, shopping for ingredients and working out the change etc.
English - instead of reading to her you could both read the same book and then discuss it together. If it's a book with a film adaptation you could then watch it together and compare it to the book. Go to the theatre? Also word games like Scrabble, Taboo, Articulate etc.

leightonupman · 09/01/2019 12:15

Good tip re apps thanks - I will definitely try that out with her! It's playing with her phone at the end of the day right? Grin

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 09/01/2019 12:09

How about apps? If you have a phone or tablet? I do lumosity and peak which are fun brain training ones all with different games each day and both free

leightonupman · 09/01/2019 11:29

Thanks much Smile

OP posts:
Orchidflower1 · 09/01/2019 11:28

Like the sound of your plan op. Best of luck.

leightonupman · 09/01/2019 11:12

On the subject of reading - I would love to return to the days when I would sit in her room and read to her for ten minutes a night. But if she doesn't want it then what can I do? What am I trying to achieve with it? Is it to improve her reading ability (and so have her read it out), or to improve listening (to me read), or just reading for enjoyment somehow? I know that improving reading skills is really important to everything else she's doing for sure, but tips on how to engage her more in this area I guess is what I need?

OP posts:
Knitwit101 · 09/01/2019 11:06

Read with her? I still read with my 11 and 12 yr olds most evenings. Find a novel that might interest you both and read it to her before bed. It will feel weird at first but you will both come to really enjoy it. You can talk about the book together, read more complicated things she might not read by herself.

leightonupman · 09/01/2019 11:05

Aww thanks so much for that last post, really appreciate the positives you are alluding to. I wish you well.

OP posts:
tellmewhenthespaceshiplands · 09/01/2019 11:00

Hi OP you literally could be writing this post (almost) for me! My DD is summer baby in Y6 and has struggled with maths since day 1. I have always been very proactive in trying to work with school to help her. KS1 teachers basically told me to relax, she's young, she'll get there. Well she is still bottom and struggling and I'm dreading SATs now.

We've had a maths tutor once a week for a year now and one thing that's improved massively is her confidence so I'm at the stage now with it that - She seems happier with maths and whilst she works her bloody socks off at it she will probably always find it hard. Teachers all say she's hard working. I know in the past I've been guilty of projecting and comparison but I've also felt let down by what I perceive as schools willingness to just let her plod on. She basically hovers just under the "below age expectation " level or equivalent.

So sorry nothing to add but to say I know exactly where your coming from. And yep, DH have often taken our worries about this out on each other! Life after school for our kids seems especially uncertain and competitive and we desperately want them to be ready. For me you absolutely need to crack maths for this!

I think other posters have provided a useful reality check and your plan going forward sounds like a really good one. I can see why some have been hard on you but totally get how much of a worry it is.

FWIW I think she's got good parents behind her who will help and that's more than some kids have. Just make sure you always tell her how brilliant she is and how proud you are of her - help build her self belief.

Good luck OP

leightonupman · 09/01/2019 10:59

These are great suggestions, but I have to admit I'm an idiot when it comes to understanding how to make Maths and English fun specifically. Any ideas on these guys? If it's not practise maths and English in a workbook then what?

OP posts:
SnugglySnerd · 09/01/2019 10:56

My parents used to take me on outings relevant to things we were learning in school e.g. a castle when we had a castles project, a walk where I had to navigate when we were doing map skills etc. I have no doubt this enhanced my learning in school and helped me to understand concepts and enjoy the topics more but it wasn't extra homework as such.
If you can't do that then what about finding relevant videos and documentaries on YouTube for her to watch at home to support what she is learning in school?

leightonupman · 09/01/2019 10:43

Fantastic. I really appreciated all the honest experiences you relayed to me here also.

I'm open to any more suggestions and help you can offer and I'll amend my plan accordingly.

OP posts:
ChrisjenAvasarala · 09/01/2019 10:42

I give my 2 extra homework. We've got a subscription to One Third Stories for spanish, and we're working through Scottish history (because in school they only hit the main historical figures and a couple of battles). But mine are only 5 and 7 so it's really just story telling with them, not sitting them down to so work.

We do extra reading and numbers, but again, it's fun. We play games rather than doing actual work.

As they get older, I'm going to see how it goes but I imagine I will always give them something to do until they reach high school. Then they need to concentrate on their subjects, and I wouldn't know the curriculum enough to give them applicable extra work.

It's up to you if you want to find out the curriculum and give her appropriate learning resources.

Seeline · 09/01/2019 10:39

Sounds like a plan!

I really do think this is the right approach. If school aren't complaining that your DD is mucking about/not doing homework etc, then she is obviously trying.

If she is allowed to enjoy what she likes and is good at, her confidence will improve and may help boost her other subjects.

I think the maths tutor is fine.

Good luck to you all.

leightonupman · 09/01/2019 10:35

Guys thanks so much.

Frankly this thread has been a very humbling experience. I take on board your views and to heart also. I wanted feedback and I got it, so thank you.

Having read everything to date, this is what I now think is best:

Calm measured parents evenings and meetings if appropriate - no ranting or shouting or screaming, promise!!! Partnership is the key take away
Focus on her strengths and building her confidence in areas or subjects she enjoys.
Ask teachers for insight into how she can improve.
Be satisfied that she is happy at school, which she is.
Dump my own insecurities which may be pushing this whole thing along more than I want to admit.
Take her to an optician - check for dyslexia also, just in case.
Talk to her more about how she sees the future and what she wants to do going forward. Encourage her, and her creative artsy side to build confidence generally.
Pick up reading to her again - we used to read to her every single night but then one day at the end of primary I think, she didn’t seem to want it. We ask her to read some during the school week once or twice a week but perhaps could do more are we saying?
Perhaps encourage clubs in the things she likes.
I’ll keep the Maths tuition going for now - it’s only an hour a week and I don’t think it’s harming at least.
Stop giving her homework after school when the school doesn’t?
Promote learning fun rather than a chore.

What do you think??

OP posts:
TheExtraGuineaPig · 09/01/2019 10:34

I don't believe for a moment this is a real post.. no one thinks schools would it should change subjects around so a child can do just English and maths. Annoying wind up merchant.

BertrandRussell · 09/01/2019 10:12

“A bright child will achieve good grades no matter the band.”

Not necessarily true- sometimes lower sets do lower tier exams so can’t get higher grades. But no need for the OP to be thinking about that yet.

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