Shout and scream or Coffee and Tea??

The other thing you can look at in the DfE performance tables is how well the school does with low, middle, and high prior attainers, that will give you some idea of where she's going to get to. Some schools do extremely well with lower prior attainers.

Great posts chocolate and merry.

i think that you need to bear in mind, that a teacher can be the best teacher in the world, can put every single intervention under the sun in place, can data drop to order but they cannot make a child without ability...achieve.

You can't make a silk purse etc

very often setting is done based on the sats results
my son achieved a 4 in his ks2 sats [back in the day] and so was not in the top set at high school[this was the bog standard average]
he made rapid progress and was achieving gcse grade A in year 8 but he still wasn't put in top set because he hadn't got good enough sats result

he went on to achieve well at GCSE and is now doing A levels

you don't seem to want to answer questions about where she is at .... and i suspect it's because you know where her weaknesses are and are looking for someone to blame

I wonder too how open you are to being told and accepting that she will and should make progress but has limited ability in maths and is likely to remain in the bottom set and in the end, achieve at a low level.

Various things determine progress and outcomes. Natural ability will be one, teacher input another, parental support another and student effort and application another. With all of the 3 latter working well,there will still be a limit to what each child can achieve. What you want is for them to achieve the best they can - that will require the other 3 to be work really well.

I still think you just don't have enough information. I think you need to make an appointment to go to school and find out about their perceptions of her ability, her work ethic and what plans they have in place for her and can put in place for her. Until you have that conversation you will remain in the dark.

When you have that conversation, you need to accept that it's possible they will say that they think she is low ability in maths. That doesn't mean she can't and shouldn't make progress - of course all children should. You need to accept they might say she is trundling along and not pushing herself or being lazy. These are options to explain what is happening, along with the school not doing enough. You need to be willing to hear that.

Having the conversation will improve your knowledge of the situation and it will also push the school to think anew about her and their plan for her.

In the end though,nsimply saying that she must achieve more and you expect X outcome at the end isn't going to mean that X outcome occurs - it's not just a case of wanting it and demanding it from wither the kiddos the school. Some will achieve at a high level and others won't, even with fantastic input from the school.

leightonupman
Your approach is still wrong and you're in danger of falling into the trap I mentioned earlier of parents who see a grade 5 in term 1 and a grade 5 in term 2 and decide no progress has been made. The only difference is that you've decided this is an accountability and competency issue and are already (essentially 16 weeks into year 7) getting ready to launch complaints.

You're already saying in a year's time you'd be asking why the teacher didn't look at their data, identify reasons and fetch a student up to the same level and therefore the teacher is responsible if a student is working at a lower level than their peers. It's not as simple as 'get data + wave an educational magic wand = child working at least to the average level of the year group'.

Your entire approach is still 'if my child doesn't get what I want them to then the teacher is to blame'.

Now staff can work hard, they can do everything they can to help, they'll often have intervention lists coming out their ears, but there is no magic education wand that will turn a student who appears to be weaker into an student of average or higher ability across the board.
It's totally reasonable if you're concerned to talk with the teachers and I would suggest it's a chat worth having, but if you go in with some of the attitudes and approaches here then there is a high likelihood you're going to starr running people up the wrong way.

Your child will be making progress and improving all the time. The teachers will continue to proactively respond to that and increase expectations.

Say she gets 5 out of 10 in a spelling test earlier in the year. Then at the end of the year she is still getting 5 out of 10. You might say she has made no progress, but she has. The spellings by the end of the year are a lot harder.

The thing is that you are measuring her progress by looking at still being in the bottom set. But all the other children will be progressing too. In order for her to move up a set, she will not only have to progress faster than the others in her set, she will also need to overtake some in the set above, so that they move down and she goes up.

Why are you assuming that it is the teacher who is at fault here? Sorry to say this, but if she isn't as bright as some of the others, then all the teachers in the world can't change that. It's nobody's fault, you can't blame the school, she is who she is.

When you talk about someone being accountable, it strikes me like you are dealing with this in the same way as you would with an issue at work - ie the teaching is wrong and has to be corrected, and once they have corrected their teaching methods, your child will suddenly become more intelligent and start to learn much faster than everyone else.

You need to accept that the school is working hard to ensure that she progresses to the best of her ability.

You also need to accept that the best of her ability might not be as good as you would like it to be.

You seem to be wilfully ignoring my question...
I have to assume (bottom band) they were low scores, although they may not reflect her true potential, as you think she underachieved at primary, but you haven't provided any evidence or indication of her ability.

What were the Progress 8 scores for the school for the last two years?
If they were around 0, and your DD entered with 100 in Reading and maths, you can expect a clutch of 4s and 5s at GCSE. If she scored below 90, I'm guessing she will come out with 2s and 3s. If the school has a Prog8 score of +0.5, maybe mostly 3s with some 4s.

What helps children most is having parents that have realistic expectations- for them, and of what schools actually provide. You are not the customer here!
One term is not long enough for most underachieving children to settle into secondary. You and your wife arguing about her progress is going to make your DD anxious, and she is going to feel that she isn't good enough for you. Constantly trying to live up to unrealistic aspirations is going to damage her emotional and mental health.

You need to check with the maths department what topics are being covered this year, so that the tutor is consolidating the learning happening in school, as well as filling in the gaps. (If she got below 100 in KS2, then she hasn't mastered the KS2 curriculum yet, but you're stressing about KS4? It's crucial to get the foundations right in maths, as every thing is built upon those)

Check (either with DD, or with her form tutor) that she is managing the organisational side of things (right classroom, at right time, with correct books and equipment). Many children struggle with the expectations of secondary school, and lots get flustered if they're late to class, or don't have their book etc, and that has an impact on what they can take in of the lesson.

She is studying many more subjects now, so you cannot expect amazing amounts of progress in the core subjects in Y7 as there is so much for her to take on board atm. New subjects will have a far steeper learning curve, so progress may be more evident.

How do you know? Effort grades in class?

“The teacher who’s at fault primarily”
How hard does your child actually work? How good is behaviour?
How well is HW completed?

Why are you apportioning blame? If your child isn’t making progress then you ask why not? What could they improve on?
You’ve asked her if she’s distracted? What do teachers say?
You seem to have both unrealistic expectations and zero idea of how schools work.

leightonupman
Not a problem. I understand why you want to know more about her progress, I just dispute the idea that schools should do multiple data drops etc as a way of reporting to parents and if parents have specific concerns then having a chat with the school about the whole picture and specific concerns is a much better (and proportionate) way to do it than lots of pointless data entries.

I'll answer each question bit by bit if that's ok.

How often do you independently improve how you teach each individual student may I ask?
Every lesson. Throughout the lesson I'm constantly observing learning, answers, listening to group work and then will adapt the support/challenge/task structure/ timings/nature of instructions etc to suit the children.
After pieces of work have been completed, I'll look for patterns ( E.g. is X a misunderstanding for one student or half a class). Next lesson' s teaching is adapted accordingly.
I presume your measures will inform this improvement?
Do you proactively ask whether or not each kid is learning at least to an acceptable standard for the band and if they’re not, are you changing and correcting what you are doing until they are performing correctly?
I don't judge students based on what band they are in. That's mainly because I think that can set low expectations subconsciously.
I look at where the child is, any prior information I have on them, the skill or knowledge we are looking at & then sequence teaching and learning so they gradually make progress, always remembering thay progress doesn't mean doing something once. Progress is being able to reproduce that standard consistently and independently.

For example, I teach a weaker student this year who is great at X and poor at Y and Z. I can't say they're grade 7 (for example) because they might be a 7 in X but be a 5 in Y and Z. Their parent might say 'they've gone backwards', but they haven't. They just achieved a 7 in a novel, but found poetry and narrative writing difficult.

Obviously I'm just saying what I do, but this is fairly standard teaching stuff and nothing exceptional.

This isn’t a teaching decision I’m talking about. I want confidence from my kid’s teachers that they are clear about how she is performing today and where she’s not up to standard, that they are taking proactive steps to change how they are teaching her so she is
I understand. You'll get that by talking to the teachers either on the phone or in person.
That sort of detailed overview isn't manageable to give for all students, even though the information is in staff's head, which is why short update reports are done instead. Much as you clearly don't like the reports in this situation, they are a reasonable way of communicating progress. Some members of staff teach 200-400 students in my shool, each with 3 reports a year. Some situations require more partnership (and this would be one), but you can't design a system around the exceptions when there's a viable alternative.

I think arranging to talk to the school with an open mind is the way forward. If it's a specific subject then contact the subject teacher. If it's a number of subjects, ask the form tutor to put a round robin out for information and then you can get an overview.

Does she know her times tables and number bonds?
Can she read fluently and expressively and with understanding?
Did she achive 100 plus in her ks2 sats?

From my experience of setting, children are nowadays 'ranked' like their GCSE grades will be before grade boundaries are decided. The sad fact is, if other children have performed better in their SATS and assessments, they deserve to be higher up and she doesn't. Places are limited; higher sets are not for everyone....

Firstly, the higher sets might be full.
Secondly, higher sets are likely to be bigger. A smaller lower set in my mind is favourable to a huge higher band set.
Thirdly, some children develop their intellectual ability as they grow. If she's motivated who's to say she won't achieve at GCSE? Bottom sets when you're in Y7 mean little. She's 12 with more than four years to master studying.
Lastly, best thing you can do - and I'm a secondary English teacher with 18 years of experience: read, read and read more. To her, with her, of fiction, of non fiction. Then talk about it. Her GCSE papers will have reading ages of 15-16 years and some children's reading ages are woefully low in all year groups I teach. You want her reading age to be as close as possible to her chronological age. If she can access a curriculum because she can read it, AND comprehend what she is reading, then her intellectual ability, whatever it is, will shine through.

I am a mother. I will do homework like building mountains because my sons like it. But we miss boring homework regularly because they're at Cubs and gymnastics and martial arts. Boring homework is of little value to them and I can't see it's marked, either. What we NEVER miss (unless it's Christmas Day) is reading. Encourage a love for reading and everything will follow. Minimum I'd suggest four times a week.

Also set an example. Only 21% of fathers read to their children. Fact I read recently in a book, 'Don't call it Literacy'.

Did she score 100 or more in the ks3 sats?
Does she know her times tables and her number bonds?
Can she read fluently and with expression and understanding?

I think you need to step back a little. Secondary school is a massive adjustment. Don't introduce any more pressure than she's already under or she will lose confidence and slip back. Help her to complete homework and tasks as best she can, get the basics in place. Encourage indepence and just reassure her lots. Enjoy learning with her if it's a project you can discover together. Kumon etc is no match for enthusiastic loving parental support, if you can carve out the time for it.

At secondary the norm at most schools is for your child to attend too. It is good for the teacher to have a visual prompt as to which child they are talking about, and at secondary age they should be taking more ownership about their education too.
It has generally been really positive as the teachers praise DD in front of me which is good for her motivation/esteem. I agree it can sometimes be harder to have frank conversations.
We are about to have y9 evening and choose options. I want to ask 'do you expect her to pass this if she selects it' but may have to be a bit more subtle.

I do try to see the SENCO / pastoral without my DD - usually by sending her and DH home early. Sometimes we have a long gap before the last appointment and DD and DH leave then and I do the last appt on my own.

Without data how do you know if things are improving? My experience says you don’t.
And with all due respect, that's probably because you aren't a teacher so don't understand how teachers do their job, which isn't a criticism (it's normal for people not to know the details of other people's jobs), but it's also why it's probably best to realise that what you want isn't necessarily what would be the best teaching decision.

Ways we check progress:
By working with the student.
By asking targeted questions
By hearing them articulate answers.
By seeing their work get better on specific skills.
By them generating more thoughtful responses.
By listening to the answers they give in class.
By observing and listening to group work.
By seeing their scores on quizzes.
And obviously formal assessment

There are loads of ways to track pupil progress that doesn't involve trying to create artificially tight levels. Formative assessment as I've mentioned above is the day to day bread and butter element of teaching.

Asking for your child's strengths and weaknesses and an overview of how they are getting on isn't doing anyone a disservice. In fact, as I've said it's a totally reasonable thing to call up and ask about.

Expecting lots of data drops weeks apart does do staff and students a disservice for many reasons:
Firstly, because learning doesn't happen in neat linear chunks.
Secondly. It's demotivating for students to always be a level X even though they have been looking at different skills and to get to a higher level means upgrading skills in lots of areas across lota of topics
Thirdly, more often than not parents don't really get levels and data so they want to see every few weeks level 1 2 3 4 5 etc and claim lack of progress if they get level 4 more than once. The reality is that theyve been working at a level 4 consistently across a range of topics so the progress is mastering a new topic to that level.
Finally, it places an undue pressure on staff to summatively assess which means getting students to do graded assessments so often that actual learning is compromised as there's no time to actually teach the curriculum or get the assessments marked.

Absolutely have a chat with school about her overall progress, but be cautious before deciding thay things aren't right without relevant knowledge.

Just so you know... my dc went all the way through her entire secondary years with us knowing almost nothing about how she was doing, where she was ability-wise or compared with her peers, or whether she was improving faster or slower than she should be, or indeed, what they were basing it on.

We found it incredibly frustrating.

All you get told is that they are above/below/on target, but nobody can ever tell you what they mean by that. It's not the teachers, it's the system. Whether it was her own personal target, the general one for the whole cohort, or just the level they were expecting her to be at by the end of the year, I never knew.

You won't get continuous feedback, you'll be lucky for termly. We got two parents' evenings a year. One in October when it would be the form teacher, who might not even teach them for any of their subjects, and the other was around the end of June. By which time you are practically at the end of the year anyway, so any information that would have been useful earlier in the year about progress or lack of it, is a bit too late to be of any use.